Does the idea of making videos for your online course scare you? Believe it or not, you don’t have to have videos to teach a course. Course creator Tanner Guzy has the proof in the pudding – he’s reached 6-figures with primarily text-based lessons!

See what works and what doesn’t, then you can adapt… you can plan yourself into oblivion, whereas if you’re out and actually doing stuff that’s where you’ll start to see results.

Tanner Guzy

I really enjoyed my conversation with Tanner! As a student of his myself, it was cool to hear how his business works from the inside. There’s lots to think about and lots of great advice to take in.

In This Episode, We Talked About:

  • (3:39) What led Tanner to create his first online course
  • (4:50) How he found his niche
  • (6:07) His first steps towards course creation
  • (8:17) Launch strategy and sales techniques
  • (9:12) Tanner’s experience with a popular course platform
  • (9:57) An atypical approach to course content format
  • (13:24) His current sales funnel
  • (19:01) Coaching vs. courses
  • (20:22) Where Tanner’s traffic comes from (his answer was a first for this podcast!)
  • (25:13) What he’d do differently if he was starting over

Thank you for listening in – I hope you enjoyed what you heard! I’ll be back with another episode soon.

Jacques Hopkins: Regular people are taking their knowledge and content, packaging it up in an online course and they're making a living doing, but not everyone is successful with online courses. There's a right way and there's a wrong way, and I'm here to help course creators actually succeed with online courses. Hi, I'm John Hopkins, and this is the online course show.

Hey everyone, jock Hopkins here, and welcome to episode 92 of the online course show. Today on the show, I was joined by Tanner Ngozi of and we talked online courses and believe it or not. And we talked about, of course, his online course and his online business in general, and there's a lot of great takeaways from that conversation coming up in just a little bit, but first, let me tell you about a few things going on at the online course. first of all, join the Facebook group. It's completely free. A lot of people are joining, interacting about online courses. Beginners are there. People with online courses already are there. To join the free online course community on Facebook. Just go to the online course, and click on community at the top.

Next, I want to tell you about my all time favorite tool for online courses, and that is click funnels. For my online piano course. I use ClickFunnels for all of my landing pages, all my order forms. I use it to accept payment. I use it to host my membership site. I use it for webinar registration pages.

There's so many things you can do inside of one platform with click funnels, and when you sign up for a free trial with ClickFunnels using my affiliate link, I will send you all of my best templates that I actually use for piano in 21 days. And I'll send you a free course, click funnels for course creators that I made so that you can get started as a course creator on click funnels in the best possible way.

So if all of that sounds great and you want to try out click funnels, then head to the online course and click on tools at the top. Next. If you are new to this process, if you don't have an online course that has made a single sale yet, then I have an online course for you. It's called the online course accelerator, and it's designed to take you from a complete beginner to your first online course sale within eight weeks.

Everything you need to know about online courses, I'll teach you how to presale your course. I'll teach you how to do webinars the right way. I'll teach you all about funnels, and most importantly, I'll teach you how to actually get customers and do marketing the right way. Now, for those of you that are listening that already have an online course and have already made sales but it just hasn't reached all your goals, I have a program for you as well and that is called next level courses.

That is my high ticket coaching program, I mentorship program and that is application only to learn more about next level courses, head to the online course, So our conversation today is with Tanner Ngozi and we talked about a lot of cool things. But one of my favorite things that we talked about was the fact that his course is actually mostly text and image base.

If you're just starting out in video scares you. This could be interesting for you, or if you're looking for other options, or if you're just looking for another content delivery system, it's a very interesting way to do things. So in the interview we talked about why he went that path. Well, what he would've done differently, but Tanner's got a.

Very, very successful online business in the masculine style niche. And so it's just a great all around conversation about online business and getting started in online courses. So let's go ahead and jump into the conversation with Tanner Ngozi right now. Hey Tanner, welcome to the online course show.

Tanner Guzy: Jack. Thanks for having me on, man. I'm excited.

Jacques Hopkins: Good. I'm excited too. So let's start like this. I know you have a lot of different things going online besides online courses. So what are the steps that led up to creating your first online course?

Tanner Guzy: Oh man, that's a fun question. So I've been in the online space for almost a decade now, and what I focus specifically on is men's style stuff. So teach guys how to make better decisions about the clothes that they're putting on their bodies. And. When I first started trying to monetize it, I did what a lot of guys do, which is basically like reach out to my mailing list and say, Hey, if you guys want some help, then reach out and we can help. And you know, I can do some coaching one on one stuff.

And I found over like three or four years of doing that that I was getting. Basically majority of the same questions from the same guys, just again and again and again. And so for my own peace of mind, I decided that I was going to be able to kind of systematize it as opposed to treating each one that was unique.

Obviously still be able to be unique in the situation than I needed it to. And then I kind of realized it was like, well, I've already created a course. Why not just like sell it as a course and be able to do it that way as opposed to having to have the one on one element with it. So it was very much kind of like an organic step by step process where I was solving a unique problem until I got to the point where it's like, yeah, this already exists. Why not sell it this way and make some money with it?

Jacques Hopkins: So let's, let's back up a little bit because a lot of times when people are just getting started, they're not sure exactly which niche to get into. You know, you started, you started the website and eventually started the online course. How did you know what your niche, what the right niche was for you.

Tanner Guzy: Oh man, that's a fun question too. So I don't think I necessarily knew. I mean, when I first started writing about style stuff and about it for men, I was never really with the intention of like building it into a business. I was just writing about something that I enjoyed writing about and I recognize that there was kind of a hole in the space of how it was being discussed because you know, if the listeners are familiar with.

The men's style world. And there's nothing wrong with this. I've got a lot of peers who have been very successful doing it this way, but it's very much a prescriptive approach of these are the five shoes that you need to wear, or here's how to tie a tie and this is not any known, that kind of stuff. And I realized that that's not necessarily applicable for everybody else.

So it was kind of a blend of my own personal approach to things or writing something that I enjoyed writing about. And from there I actually was able to find an audience. And so. It was a lot more kind of scratching my own itch as opposed to very specifically looking at, this is a market that has a problem and I think I may be able to come up with a solution for that problem. Okay. And then.

Jacques Hopkins: You got started with the coaching, and I think a lot of people skip that step because they liked the allure of passive income with a course. But even if somebody were out there listening to this and wanted to start with coaching, how did you get those first visitors to your site and get those first coaching clients?

Tanner Guzy: So the way that I first started getting guys to the site was, you know, and this was 2010 2011 and so it may not know, I mean, it wouldn't be the same today because back then this was when blogs were kind of at their peak. You know? And so it was the idea of just offering good valuable comments on blogs that were other stuff where there was other style channels or things like art of Manliness, stuff like that, that just kind of general masculinity and being able to talk to guys there.

And then once I had established a reputation within those comments sections, being able to start leaking guys back to my own content and that kind of stuff, I would say now what I would probably do is spend most of my time doing, taking a similar approach, but doing it on a platform like Twitter. Or on Instagram or something else where there's more activity than there isn't necessarily like the blog space, but it's still the taking something that somebody else is already doing.

Adding value to it, building your own credibility that way so that other people see you as another resource in addition to somebody that they already enjoy getting content from, and then they come over and they start finding your stuff helpful as well. Okay.

Jacques Hopkins: Great. So I'm going back to what you were saying earlier when you actually launched your course. Give me an idea of the timeframe. This was when you launched.

Tanner Guzy: A, so I launched where I first started coaching back in 2012 and then I launched my first actual course course. Twenties 17 you know, so, I mean, I had five years and a lot of it was, I was still working a full time job that I thoroughly enjoyed.

You know, coaching was just kind of a side gig more than anything else, but it was five years of a lot of experience working with guys one-on-one before I personally felt like I was. Really ready to offer a full and complete course. If I were taking a more proactive approach about it now, like starting in a new niche and starting something right away, I would still definitely do at least a year of working with guys one-on-one and then launch.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily take the five years, but I think it's, it's crucial to be able to get that one-on-one interactive experience with guys so that you know, if you're actually solving the problem or not.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, I love it. So you've launched in 2017 after, after five years of, of doing the one-on-one, so obviously you were very qualified to actually make the course, but what was the launch strategy for you when, when the course was ready?

Tanner Guzy: So I actually followed a Jeff Walker's product launch formula for that one. For that first launch, I had just finished reading through the book, and so it was very much kind of like the sideways sale, that sales letter of, you know, building up a week of a launch and going through the pre-steps and everything else like that.

Since then, I've experimented with stuff like Russell Brunson's expert secrets. Breads. You know, I've done a lot of stuff like daily email, like you can get from Ben settle and guys like that. I feel like I'm always kind of playing around with what the right approach is, especially because even though my courses have been successful, when my business has been successful, I still don't, I know I haven't hit the full potential yet, and so I'm still trying to tap in a little bit further and a little bit better to find out when I can really like turn it up to 11 on what that launch process looks like.

Jacques Hopkins: Okay. So let's, let's talk about your course itself. I want to say it's around the $97 price point, is that correct?

Tanner Guzy: Currently, yeah. It's about 80 bucks for the, for the main one? Yeah.

Jacques Hopkins: Okay. 80 bucks. And, and is it on the teachable platform is, how do you feel about the teachable platform? You happy with it?

Tanner Guzy: Yeah, so far I've absolutely loved it, especially because it allows me to be able to do both the one-on-one stuff. It allows me to do kind of recurring revenue for a different model of coaching. I can do multiple different courses if I want to focus on different things. it's pretty cheap and super intuitive.

I would like a little bit more control over layouts and fonts and designs and stuff like that, especially on sales and landing pages. But even then, it's good enough that I can, I can pass it off and feel like I'm happy with it.

Jacques Hopkins: Okay, so I've actually been through some of your course. I'm a student of yours. I don't know if you know that or not, and I'm a fan of your course, but one of the biggest things I wanted to ask you that's kind of different than most of the people that I've had on this podcast or my experience, things that I've seen is your, your course is not primarily focused on content delivery via video. It is, is very much text and image based course. Is that fair to say? Yeah, sure. Why did you go that route? Because it's not a popular way to.

Tanner Guzy: Go. I would say it probably is more of a product of the timing in which I was doing it than anything else. You know, if I were, well, and even then, and it's such a good question, I haven't thought about that.

If I were to kind of look at this now and think about going back and doing it as primarily video as opposed to text and image, it's not as quick and easy to consume. And so I would feel like in a lot of ways it would be more like just doing it video for the sake of the credibility as opposed to the actual ease of communicating the content.

Jacques Hopkins: Does that make sense? It does make sense because I, as I was going through your course, you know, I'm, I'm a course junkie, I'm a, I'm, I'm always learning things and anytime I take a course or hell, when I watch YouTube videos, I'm always watching. I get at least double speed cause like I have so much I want to get through.

And, and with your course, like I have to, I have to read the words. I'm not the fastest reader and have to analyze the pictures and look at it. And so it was an interesting approach, but also. As I was going through it and thinking about how you sold the course and whatnot. I think $80 is probably a good price point for like a text based course, because normally text-based content is more of a book.

Right. And I want to get into that in a little bit, cause I know you've got experience with books too, right? But I think there's, there's a perceived value too. And I think if you did take the same content and turn it into a high quality video course, you could charge five to 10 times more for it.

Tanner Guzy: Absolutely. No, I totally think you're right.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. But I think it's a good way that people can get started because a lot of times. Having to create 10 2030 videos and packaged it up in a course is scary for people. And if they can just get started with maybe a lower dollar course, that's more texts than image base. And maybe a lot of people don't realize you can even do that on a platform like teachable.

Tanner Guzy: Absolutely. Well, and I would say the other benefit for it is that it may not be as in depth when you kind of first go into it, but it also makes it easier as it is as its own kind of quick reference guide for when guys go back to it, that it's not like, Oh crap, I got to remember.

It's like minute two 35 that had that picture that I really liked of where I could go pick up those shoes. It's just like, no, it's the main picture that's on there. So the course in and of itself is kind of its own QRG. And so looking at it from a more longterm perspective and a lot of ways, I think that not only does it make it easier to digest initially, but easier to reference back to what the stuff is.

But I agree. I think you're totally right that I could do, and even more in depth version of it, especially for me taking a very philosophical approach to all this and create a more advanced version of that program in and of itself.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. But just the fact that, you know, the flexibility of, of platforms like teachable that allow people to. Express their individuality of, of whatever that is between, from your niche to just the way you like to communicate. I thought it was very interesting.

Tanner Guzy: Yeah. Cause it doesn't all have to be video. No, I love that. Yeah, that's a great approach.

Jacques Hopkins: So going back to talking about like launch strategies and funnels, you mentioned PLF product launch formula, you mentioned, you know, I see, I see expert secrets secrets behind your listeners of this podcast will know I'm a huge fan of expert secrets because it's all about how to sell online courses. Basically. What is your funnel look like today? Because I want to say it's more of like a quiz funnel.

Tanner Guzy: Yeah, so the is a little bit different today and again, it's, it's been really interesting because I've implemented a lot of stuff. I've a, I'm sure you're familiar with talking more. I've gone through his $1 million implementation program, and especially because of the majority of my business is actually built around still the one on one coaching where it's a high ticket coaching approach.

And so for the most part, the courses are now occasionally still peppered in throughout my business emails or my, my, my daily content emails. But the, the main, the main promotion and everything else is still a coaching. But yeah, as far as the funnel goes, the way that it's structured out, it's kind of nice to be on a show where I get to nerd out about this stuff cause more most of the time. This is not stuff I, I talk about on podcasts.

Jacques Hopkins: I haven't asked you about style.

Tanner Guzy: I know, right? It's gets kind of fun. It's, it's a little bit refreshing. Okay. So my main draws is my archetype quiz because I break down style into three different archetypes as opposed to just like you have to wear a suit in order to be stylish.

And that in and of itself is. A big paradigm shift that kind of makes it attractive and interesting for a lot of guys to think about. So from there, once they get the answer, in order to get the answer, they actually have to give me their email address and then that gets them on the newsletter. My current approach to my newsletters, basically there's like a 10 day auto sequence that goes out that kind of preps you through what everything looks like.

And I. Pepper in references to like buying the book that's on Amazon or like, yeah, you're going to get a lot of content from me and I'm going to promote my courses and my coaching. So if you don't want that, go ahead and unsubscribe. Now, no hard feelings. But then in addition to that, that 10 day auto sequence, I send out an email anywhere from like four to six days a week that I just actually go out and ride every day.

And I'm constantly playing around with what's the best way to do that. But the, the thing that I've found to be the, the most successful is this idea of like infotainment, where I will take a story from my own life, take something from a client's life or something that I've seen in experience. Something that can be somewhat entertaining, tied into a principle related to style, and either directly use that as a way to either pitch coaching or one of the products, or at least on every single email.

There's like a PS, if you want me to help you more. Here's some of my free stuff. Here's the cheat book, here's the, you know, the more expensive courses or the really kind of high ticket of coming and working with me one-on-one. So that's the funnel.

Jacques Hopkins: But is there any scarcity in there

Tanner Guzy: anywhere? Not really. I mean, cause I, I've played around with that before. I would be happy to introduce it if I felt like there are way to do it and do it well. And I've, and, and in fact I have done this with, with the courses in and of itself, where it's like a, like my projector power course, which is kind of the higher end one where I've, I've kicked around with like, we're going to do 20 guys in this and it's a group course and that kind of stuff.

And I'm only doing, you know, I'm only opening up these slots and. To be fully honest and transparent. I would love to implement more scarcity because I know how effective it is, but I haven't found a way to make it super effective yet for me and what my funnel looks like or who my niche is, or what my demographic looks like is one of the things that's really hard about my stuff is that most.

Most style stuff when it comes to men's style, you have kind of two different camps. You have guys who really like nerd out about this stuff and they love it. Therefore, they're not going to pay anybody to teach them how to do it cause it's kind of insulting. Or you have guys who are happy to pay, but they don't even know that they want it.

Until I actually can like sneak in and let them know that it's like, this is probably something you want to be paying attention to too. And so I almost have kind of like an anti scarcity approach where it's like, I know this isn't like money or relationships or other things that are like super like top of the food chain priority, important, what is important.

And so when you've got this other stuff dialed in and you're ready to kind of up your game on other arenas, then I'm here to help you out with that kind of stuff. So. I dunno. It's a big experiment right now that I'm still figuring out with all this, but the niche in and of itself makes the scarcity component kind of a tricky puzzle to figure out.

Jacques Hopkins: I think the word of the day is anti scarcity. That's interesting. Yeah. And I wasn't, I certainly wasn't implying that the only way to do this is to have an element of scarcity. It's just not a lot. Whether it's. Literally not having the ability to buy it, outside of a certain window or, or, or, or bonuses that are only available or a discount that's only available during a certain time.

So it was just curious if you were implementing scarcity in any kind of way. Now I want to go next to something you said a few minutes ago comparing your coaching to the courses, and you said that you. You like the coaching is still a bigger part of your business than, than the courses. And it is that by design. Why is that?

Tanner Guzy: It's by design because I genuinely enjoy the coaching aspect of it. I'm a, I'm, I'm a people person and I also love the I, the friendships that I establish with the guys that I work one-on-one. I would love it if the disparity between the two were not as high. You know, if I look at what my numbers were last year, then.

My one on one coaching sales were like three X what my, what my core sales were. I would love it if it were closer to like 40 60 or even 50 50 or something like that. And so it's definitely a weak point that I need to bring up further. But I personally, I know a lot of guys love the idea of like totally being able to remove themselves.

There's the passive income component and all of that. I certainly get the appeal of that to some extent, but I genuinely love teaching and coaching my guys, and so I kind of lean into my strengths and what I enjoy with it as well.

Jacques Hopkins: And are you, you're doing this full time now. You mentioned a job before, but now you're doing this full time, right?

Tanner Guzy: Yeah. It's been just over two years that I've been doing this on my own now.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. I like I, the conversation of. Like coaching versus courses, I think is a good one. And you know, I have an online piano course and there's no real like coaching component there, like it's course. And that's where I make most of my money.

And then I have this online course guy brand, and I also have like a course and then high ticket coaching with that as well. And it's like . I find that you have to really kind of price it too to get those percentages right. And so if I start getting, you know, more coaching clients than I want compared to course clients, then I'll just kind of tweak up the price of the, of the coaching. Do you find your, you do kinda the same thing.

Tanner Guzy: Yeah, well, and I haven't been as deliberate about it as you have been. What I've, what I've focused on so much within the coaching component of it is that that in and of itself, and so when I first started, I was charging about half of what I am right now, and I only basically had one option.

And then I started offering other even higher ticket options initially just as price anchors so that when they heard what the real offer was, then it wasn't that big of a deal. And then I had a bunch of guys actually start taking me up on those higher ticket offers where it's like, okay, this is sweet.

And so it's this constant tweak of how much do I push so that the guy still get excited about it. I'm not, you know, like really like plummeting what my. What my actual conversion rates are or things like that as far as guys who buy, but that I'm also not leaving money on the table when they would be willing to spend it too. So it's very much an organic, like just trial and error for me.

Jacques Hopkins: So one of the areas that people struggle with most is just getting the traffic. And you kind of talked about how you got traffic initially, but fast forward to today, I think, from a little bit of research I've done, it looks like you've got a pretty popular site. Where's most of your traffic coming from?

Tanner Guzy: Twitter. Which is totally weird for men's style stuff, right? I mean, I, I still, I go speak at men's style conferences and it's all these guys, you know, friends who have four or 5 million subscribers on YouTube or everybody's on it cause they're such visual platforms.

Right? But again. Those are for guys that are interested in style as a hobby. What I found with Twitter is that this is a space, at least the corner of Twitter in which I spend most of my time. This is a space where you can find men who are just interested in this idea of self development or self optimization, and so they get their fitness in order.

They get their finances in order, they get their relationship in order, but they kind of chase this idea of, okay, well what's the next thing that I can get even better at? And I can sneak in there and say, well, yeah, all those things, it's great that you've got them. But if the guy staring back at you in the mirror still looks like the idiot who didn't have his act together 10 years ago, then you're effecting your development and all these other spaces too.

And so most of what I found, in fact, I built a whole business like I started, I've got 30,000 subscribers on YouTube, and I've never had a client come from any of that. You know, I've got just over, I'm just about to hit 20 after even a purge on Instagram. And I've never had a single client come from that almost.

Every single one of my sales has come from Twitter because that's, that's where my niches.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, I think that's a, that's certainly a first for the show, for somebody to answer that question. But Twitter.

Tanner Guzy: Right. It's weird. I totally acknowledge how weird that is.

Jacques Hopkins: So what, I mean, what, what tips or strategies can you share with us? I mean, even even the personally, like, I'm curious what advice you have to get some more traffic from Twitter.

Tanner Guzy: Well, the first thing is you've got to make sure that that's actually where your audience is, right? Because again, that was the same frustration that I had my first year in business, was that I was making these awesome YouTube videos and my subscribers were starting to go up and, and didn't actually ever translate into any sales, you know?

And so it was kind of a lot of wasted time on that. And so I would say, first of all. No. If your audience is on Twitter, but then second of all, if it is, it's actually one of the easiest platforms to grow on because you can piggyback off of really good content that other people are creating by doing things like quote tweets or responding to tweets or re tweeting threads or things like that.

And so it's this idea of taking good stuff that somebody else is doing, and then you adding your own components of that, especially because then if you do it well enough, the guys who have these really big audiences that you're already piggybacking off of their content. They will retweet out your content, so all of a sudden you're out in front of their 100,000 guys or 50,000 guys or whatever else, and you do that consistently enough and then it starts to add up within your own following as well.

But honestly, I mean, I did six figures with only having with, again, the majority of my guys coming from Twitter. And I had like 8,000 subscribers. You know, you do not need to have massive numbers in order to be able to have this be a good, a good business model. It's not like with Instagram, you've gotta at least be in like, you know, the a hundred K range or something else. I found with Twitter, the numbers don't have to be as big as they do with other stuff.

Jacques Hopkins: A six figure business from 8,000 Twitter followers.

Tanner Guzy: Insane. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Jacques Hopkins: But it's real, right? I mean, that's, you know, there's, there's all kinds of ways to get started. There's all, all kinds of paths to success, especially when we're talking about online business. But I think, I think people like to overcomplicate it too. And absolutely. You, you clearly focused on one platform, you know, people get started, they think they have to be on all the platforms and do all these things on all these different platforms. And you've shown that with one platform and not even one that's overly popular in terms of turning into a six figure business. 8,000 followers. Six figure your business. Yup. Love it. Any paid ads or is all your traffic organic?

Tanner Guzy: All organic so far. But that's kind of the next level for me is trying to figure out how do I cause one, I don't like the fragility of having my entire business being dependent on one platform because. Twitter could go under or they can decide I'm too politically incorrect, or you know, they don't like where I live in the country. I mean, I can get booted off Twitter tomorrow. That's that fragility bothers me, which is one of the reasons why like I don't even sell that much on Twitter. Sweater's just my main platform to get guys on my mailing list, which is where most of the selling happens anyway, but I'm always looking to expand.

Like I'm still active on Instagram. I'm still playing around with doing YouTube videos and for me to be able to really take it to the next level. And just scale it out the way that I want to. I know that paid traffic is going to be a component in there somewhere. So I'm looking at that as one of my, one of my irons in the fire this year.

Jacques Hopkins: Awesome. So, looking back, kind of when you were getting started and looking at people that are interested in getting started today in 2019, what advice, what advice do you have for those people having been through this process already.

Tanner Guzy: for me, the biggest thing, you know, if I could go back and talk to the old version of myself, I would say the most important thing is to just execute for it. And I don't remember where I originally heard it, but it's kind of the, the ready fire, aim principle where it's like, you just got to do stuff and then you could pivot and adapt and adjust from there. But I have a . Personality where I get very prone to this paralysis by analysis type thing where it's like, well, it's not totally perfect, or you know, you just gotta.

You just got to put out an MVP and see what works and what doesn't, and then you can adapt. But it's way more important to actually be doing something than to just be planning something because you can plan yourself into oblivion. Whereas if you're out and you're actually doing stuff, and then that's where you'll start to see the real results that are going to get you the progress that you're after.

Jacques Hopkins: So what's a, what's coming up for you and your brand over the next few months or even a couple of years?

Tanner Guzy: So one of the things I'm working on pivoting out to, especially again, you know, a really good example of things that I find is I do my coaching, is that the style component is really only one small piece of this big puzzle that I'm calling presence, which is, you know. What is, what is your overall presence? Like what do you look like? What do you sound like? How much of a people person are you? How is your authenticity, your own internal confidence? What is, what kind of a presence do you have when you're in a room or how do you feel about yourself? And the clothing element is only one part of that.

And the things that I teach in a way that I teach these guys about, their clothing actually applies to so much more than that. And so for me, it's an expansion beyond just style. But into creating a strong national and presence for, for men in general, and that's going to be a fun nut to crack. How do I, how do I pivot away?

And it's not even a pitted pivoting away, but how do I just expand because I'm already a credible resource in this arena when it comes to this other stuff, not as much. It doesn't mean that I don't know the content as well or that I can't help guys because again, I've, I've seen that as I've coached, but that's not the way that I've branded myself. And so the way to expand on that, it's going to be a fun challenge.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, but I think that going that direction where you're like super niche down and then broadening is the right way to go. One one problem I see is people don't niche down too far enough and they go broad because they want to cast a wide net.

But in reality, if you want to make a name for yourself at first, you've got to find that niche, but you could always. Broaden out later. And it sounds like that's kind of what you're thinking about doing right now.

Tanner Guzy: Absolutely. No, and I, I would totally 100% recommend going that route is niche down as far as you possibly can. I mean, to the point where I even know that 30% of my clients are guys who run blue collar businesses but still work in white collar environments and they don't know how to dress in a way that actually translates between those two. You know, like that's, that's super niche for me, but when I get down that far because I know how to market it, and then I can expand out beyond it as opposed to, you're right, well, I need this huge customer base, or how do I make something appealing to everybody?

And again, you only need. I dunno, especially if you're doing high ticket coaching or you're selling courses that are in the 500 range or the thousand dollar range or something else. You only need a hundred guys to be able to see success, or you don't need a million customers. It's pretty easy to get a business going with a pretty small select group of people.

Jacques Hopkins: Sandra, it's been a pleasure, man. Thanks so much for joining me on the show today. To wrap things up, let us know for, let the audience know if there's anything else you want to share and where they can find you online.

Tanner Guzy: No, I've, I've really appreciated coming on. I'm excited to, it's like I said, it's fun to be able to talk about kind of the business component and geek out about this stuff. And so I would just echo basically what you've said as far as just. Yeah. Look for ways to be able to expand, but do it right and, and get started with whatever is that you need to do to get started with this, and then expand from there. So I'm excited to hear, to hear more about how your guys succeed with this kind of stuff.

if you wanna follow me, the best way to do it is Twitter. So it's ad Tanner, Ngozi, T. a. N. N. E. R. G. U. Z. Y. That's also my handle on Instagram. And really, come on, jump on. I'll probably piss a lot of you off because I'm not super politically correct, but that's kind of the branding and the marketing anyway, because the more polarizing you are, the more people ate you, but also more people really love you and so you get a win that way too. So yeah, come follow me there. Will interacts with all, it'll be a good time. Thanks, Dan. Thanks, man.

Jacques Hopkins: All right. That's going to do it for this episode of the online course guy podcast. You can find all the show notes and links from today's episode by going to the online course, dot com slash 92 and if you want to get more information about the programs I offer or any of the things that I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, then head over to the online course so thank you for listening to this episode.

Thank you again to Tanner for joining me and we will see you next time.