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Rather than interview a course creator this week, I’m bringing you something a little different but very relevant. Deadline

Funnel is one of the most important tools I use when it comes to selling my online course, and I know a lot of other people out there who feel the same way. So it’s my pleasure to bring you an interview with Jack Born, founder of Deadline Funnel and marketer extraordinaire.

If you see the potential, don’t let your doubts and anxiety . . . stand in the way.

Jack Born

Jack shared insights on funnels, marketing, and communicating with integrity. So grab a cup of coffee and get ready for an awesome interview!

In This Episode, We Talked About:

  • (3:15) The top question my listeners have for Jack, and the story behind his reply
  • (8:23) Jack’s thoughts on authenticity and integrity in funnels
  • (11:59) Product launch strategies and limitations
  • (14:49) How to handle sales after a deadline ends
  • (18:23) Evergreen marketing, timing, and business growth
  • (20:23) Jack’s advice on helping students benefit from your course
  • (24:00) How automation can free you to improve other aspects of your business
  • (25:10) The problem with some launch strategies
  • (26:58) The danger of not having a deadline – and what having one can mean for your sales
  • (30:19) An example of how Deadline Funnel has worked for a business similar to mine
  • (34:14) The quickest way to help new students experience a “win”
  • (36:43) How Jack would respond to questions about automated emails
  • (40:17) Dealing with late enrollment requests
  • (46:44) How to increase conversions through the structure of your funnel
  • (50:48) Webinar discussion and The Sunk Cost Fallacy
  • (57:51) Jack’s thoughts on increasing ROI with deadlines 
  • (59:22) How you can get started with Deadline Funnel

We covered a lot of ground today, so I hope you’ll drop me a line and let me know your favorite part of the conversation! I’ll be back with another episode soon.

Jacques Hopkins: regular people are taking their knowledge and content, packaging it up in an online course and they're making a living doing it. But not everyone is successful with online courses. There's a right way and there's a wrong way, and I'm here to help course creators actually succeed with online courses. Hi, I'm SHA Hopkins, and this is the online course show.

Hey everyone, jock Hopkins here, and welcome to another episode of the online course show. I am so stoked for this episode because it is just chockfull upgrade nuggets, great information if you are a course creator or aspiring course creator. This is an episode where I've been trying to line up the guests for a while, just trying to get our schedules to line up because he's actually living in Australia now.

And so we had to set it up for me at night and him in the morning, and we finally got it to work out and it did not disappoint. If you are a course creator or you're going down this process, you have got to listen to this episode. It is evergreen funnels one Oh one there is nobody on the planet. More knowledgeable about evergreen funnels and specifically evergreen funnels about online courses because Jack born is experienced with online courses and obviously very experienced.

With funnels and evergreen funnels as he went out and created a software that he wanted originally but couldn't find, and so he made it. And that's what deadline funnel is. It's super, super, super important to my business, my online course, and I know a lot of you out there are using deadline funnel already, but this just brings in a whole new perspective.

On best practices, advice from somebody that knows what they're doing. And look, this episode isn't sponsored by deadline funnel. I reached out to Jack and he was kind enough to come on and I like promoting things that I use and are excited to talk about. And so I do want to tell you that I am an affiliate for deadline funnel, but I am only an affiliate for things that I truly believe in and truly use every day in my business.

So if you listen to this and you're not using deadline funnel, but you're ready to try it out. In head over to the online course, funnel or just go to the online course, and click on tools and all my favorite tools are listed there. And you will find deadline funnel there. And when you sign up for the free trial of deadline following using my link, you will get a free course from me on how to set up deadline funnel.

And I'll actually pull back the curtain and show you my exact setup for piano in 21 days that I've been using for over. Two years and my favorite thing about deadline funnel is that it just works. Out of all the things I use, it probably breaks the least since setting it up. I literally haven't changed it in like over two years.

It just always, always, always works, and I guess I should knock on wood, but that is just such a good thing. When you look at all the things that deadline funnel is doing. For my business. So sit back. This is a long one, but it's just so full of good content. I'm so excited to bring this conversation to you.

Let's get into the full conversation with Jack Warren right now. Hey Jack, welcome to the online course show.

Jack Born: It's great to be here.

Jacques Hopkins: So look, I've got, just plenty of questions for you, but I also reached out to my audience to see if they had any questions for you as well. So we're going to be hitting you from all angles today.

I hope that's okay. And I'm going to start with a few questions from the audience. I think, and, and I want to start with the, the number one, the top question that people are asking is probably my top question for you. And it's honestly probably the most common question you get, and I'll read it, like one person wrote is, how do you ethically position an evergreen deadline if it's not really being launched right now?

Right. That's a great question. So let me go back to how, why deadline funnel exists at all. Many years ago, more than five years ago, something like six or seven years ago, I was working for a guy named Perry Marshall. I was his marketing manager, and he is, has lots of online courses, still does robust coaching and consulting business.

And really a thought leader in the marketing space. At the same time, I have my own online courses that were coming along and being a student of marketing and persuasion. I knew that one of the most effective ways to get someone to take an action is to use scarcity and to use a deadline. It's just how we're wired.

You know, as as we become adept at marketing, we, we really have to become students of how. The brain makes decisions. And so this is one of those fundamental things that we can rely on almost 100% of the time. And so I wanted to be able to use it in a way where you could do lead generation, you can bring people into an email sequence and educate them, develop, know, like, and trust, and bring them along from a cold prospect who's kind of interested in what you have to offer to someone who sees you as a thought leader.

And then there's a time to make a decision. But I wanted to do it in a way that where the deadline was real at the time. There were some cheap timers that you could put on a page. Okay. Those have existed for some time and I saw that more often than not. If you came back the next day, the counter would just start over and that's not what I'm about at all.

Okay. I wanted this to be something that was completely, I just figured someone had figured out a way to integrate it into the email software. So that when someone becomes a lead, each person gets assigned their own deadline and it's a real legitimate deadline because if you think about it, there's two types of emails you can send out.

You can send out a broadcast where everyone gets it at the same time, or you can set up an automated sequence where you've written it, where it sounds like it feels like it should feel like a one on one communication between. The person writing it and the person reading it. But it's been preloaded as loaded up ahead of time that's automated.

And anytime that we can automate stuff in our business, we gain leverage. Okay, we can take something that works, we can automate it and gain leverage, and that's how we can begin to grow and scale and business. So it's really a question of what I tried to get people to understand is that. If your marketing is true, if your automated marketing says things that are true, if your email, if you're in my email series and on day seven it says, Hey, today's the last day, and then you come back tomorrow because for whatever reason you forgot or you waited, or maybe you didn't believe it, you come back.

And if you're not able to get to take advantage of that offer that was made the day before. If it wasn't fine for the last day, then that is being. That's using it, having integrity in your business as being honest, as being truthful. You're leveraging automation in the same way that you leverage automation when you load up automated email sequences.

So I wanted to find a tool that would allow me to do that, and I looked and I searched and I just couldn't find it. And so having built another software platform previously, although I wasn't looking to, you know, to create this as a business opportunity. I really created it for my own needs. I didn't want to put, I wanted to use urgency because I know it's incredibly powerful, but I wanted to use it in a way where it was real.

And so as people went through the email sequence, when it said, today's the last day, it is the last day. And at the time I had no idea how complex this was going to be because at the time, cell phones really were just starting to become popular. Now. More than half of email messages are read on different mobile devices.

And so as people go through your email sequence, each person is probably reading it on a multitude of different devices, sometimes on the laptop, sometimes on the desktop, sometimes on the ISO and or the or the or the iPad in different locations, sometimes at the coffee shop. So the point is, is that it's becoming increasingly and more challenging.

To make sure that that deadline is accurate so that if someone's waiting in line at Starbucks and they're just killing time and they're reading through your emails and your email says, Hey, just want to make sure, you know, today's the last day to grab this special deal. When they click through and they're on their iPhone waiting in line at Starbucks, you want to make sure that that deadline is real.

And so that's, that was really the, the need that I had for creating, build my funnel. So there's a difference, but you know, just to bring it back to the original question. The way in my mind, and I strongly, strongly believe this, I think you can hear it in my voice, that if your marketing does what if your marketing is true to what actually happens, then your marketing with authenticity, your marketing with integrity, the fact that you're automating it just means that you're smart, you're using leverage, and so it doesn't make it right.

Not real. If it's automated, as long as it actually is true. When your emails and your website say, Hey, today's the last day, it better be the last day for them. So you use

the words authenticity and integrity. And I think those are important for most people in terms of how they run their business. And that's why this question comes up so much.

I'd like to kind of take my evergreen funnel, for example, and just give some examples of the different pieces in there and go through it with you based on what you just said. I love your rationale here for, you know, basically if you're not lying to people, if it is true, then, then you're just being smart about it.

So for example, one of the first emails that somebody gets in my automation is. The subject is full course launch date and it just, you know, it's got some text and because of deadline funnel, I'm able to put in the body of the email, the exact date. It says, Hey, you know, the course is going to be officially available starting on September the first or whatever, something like that, which is unique to that person, but because of deadline funnel, it looks, it looks just like.

It's going like that out to everybody. So because that's real, because for that person, it's actually going to be launched on that date. So you don't see a problem with that, right?

Jack Born: Yeah. The way the people were things, you know, changes from email sequence, the email sequence and marketed a marketer, you know, my take on it is, you know, we provide, we provided a tool that gives everyone who uses it, the ability to assign a personalized deadline that is unique and real for that person that tracks them from device to device.

From IP address, the IP address. In fact, if I can tell a quick story, I've been working on this video too long. I need to get it up online. But I did a video where I started, so I'm currently sitting as we do this interview. I'm in Australia right now, and I thought on the last trip I thought, Oh, wouldn't it be cool if on my laptop I could start as a prospect in a five day sequence?

And so I recorded that. I got on the place, I started this in the Jacksonville, Florida airport, got on a plane, flew across the globe to Australia. Took a few days to recover from the jet lag. And then I went with my daughter and we filmed it and we went to the Apple store in Australia and Ribena.

Australia. I bought an iPad, unwrapped it on camera. You know, I hit the thing to quickly load up the information from my Apple ID, open up Gmail for the first time and went to the last day email. And the timer was absolutely accurate. So I'm on a completely different IP address, completely new device all the way on the other side of the globe.

So I wanted to have that demonstration just showed this is how accurate our technology isn't. That's how dedicated we are to making sure that each person who comes through gets their own deadline. And, and I'm not, I'm not saying this really as a pitch for deadline funnel. It is what it is. But the reason why I created it was because I wanted to give.

It was really first for myself. But I also want to be able now that exists for everyone and has for some time. I wanted everyone who wants to Mark it with integrity, the ability to still be honest and ethical in their business, but to automate it and use urgency. So for example, when you sign up for a SAS application, it could be.

SaaS, I should just remove the lingo. So SAS software as a service. So something like a new email platform or if you're trying out, you know, click funnels or lead pages or something like that. Typically there's a 14 or 30 day free trial. Well, your 14 day free trial starts when you show up and sign up, and then there's a deadline.

And everyone understands that's a real deadline. It's just, it's based on when you started and so that's automated, but it is real. If you wait, you know your, your software will get shut off until you contact them and say, Hey, I want to jump in. And if they're offering bonuses before that deadline, if they're marketing with integrity, then you're only going to be able to get those bonuses and extra deals if you sign up before that deadline.

Now with deadline funnel, you have the ability to do that with your online course. So here's what I've found. What I've found is that. With online course creators in particular, almost everyone gets their start with a product launch because it makes sense, right? You're launching your product into the world.

It didn't exist before you came up with it. You created it and you launched it. Whether you launched it before, you created it or you created it, and then you launched it. You build up a list, you build up anticipation and excitement and all the things that we do during the launch, and then you do the launch and then there's a deadline.

Now, the first thing I want to point out is that almost every single time, if you're doing the launch correctly, your biggest sales day is, well, your site. Let's start with your second biggest sales at your second biggest sales day is the day of the cart open, but your biggest sales day. Is the day that you have the deadline, the day that everyone who's been reading your emails, watching your videos, attending your webinars, but for whatever reason, they just haven't found the time to pull the trigger.

They're delaying, they're delaying. There's the language sitting on the fence, but they're interested. But when you finally say, look, it's either in or out. I'm going to start focusing my attention on my students and my clients. So. Tonight's the bed line. All of a sudden you have a huge rush of sales. Okay?

The same principle is at work when you can take that concept and you can evergreen it, but the struggle that I see a lot of all my course graders go through is that they'll do a launch and it's successful, and so they figure it makes sense. Let's go back and do that again. So a few months later, maybe six months later, they go do another launch and then they might do another launch, but eventually.

You can't keep scaling that process. Okay. You can only go so far with that process, and I'm not against launches. I think that everyone should you quickly get to a point where you need to choose, am I going to continue to grow this as a business rather than a one time one hit wonder. And so if you want to be able to launch in order to launch because you want to, not because you need to to survive.

So in other words, if you are several years into your business, and the only way that you know how to get new clients and new sales in the door is through launching, you've imposed a limit on the growth of your business. So if you learn how to set up automations and systems so that you can get clients and grow your business every single week, every single month.

Even when you're not launching, then when you launch, your business explodes because you've grown your list. You've added extra revenue in sales, but you didn't need it. It wasn't the thing that kept your business alive. It was a thing that really pushed you over the edge and going from a great year to an amazing year. Does that make sense?

Jacques Hopkins: Yes, of course. I mean, that's the progression that I think a lot of course graders take. And certainly what I took, I was all about the launches and trying to figure out how, what was the sweet spot of how often I could do it without burning people out. And then I was able to start doing evergreen launches, but it was a very manual process before I found deadline funnel.

And so once I started asking. People, Hey, how can I do this a little easier and cleaner? And that's how I discovered deadline funnel a few years ago and I've been using it ever since. But you made me think of something interesting is, you know, somebody, people opt into your evergreen funnel and they go through it and they have an opportunity to buy cart closes.

And for my funnel, absolutely. The last day is the most popular day for sales. Second most popular days, the first day of open cart. After it closes, you still have a lot of emails, a lot of contacts that haven't purchased. Right. In your opinion, what do you do with those contacts? How do you handle relaunches when you start with an evergreen funnel?

Jack Born: Yeah, that's a great question. So as with I'm going to give a best practice, but the answer is there's a lots of lots of different ways. Okay. But here are some ways that you could do it. So I've seen a lot of folks do do this where they close. So you've got your cart close where it's at a, at a certain price with certain bonuses.

So what you could do, cause they're going to be some people who miss out, they wait, they procrastinate or they forget whatever, but they're still interested in now they really, really, really want. And so what you could do, and then there are other people who are going to email you and say. Man. I really, I was so excited about this.

I think this a really changed my life, but I don't have $1,000 laying around right now. So what you can do, especially if you, and I would only use this, I would only say it exactly this way, if this is in fact happen, if you've gotten an email like that, but almost always you will. If you've gotten an email asking like, man, is there a payment plan or something along those lines, you could open the card up a few days later, I would probably say, Hey, we're not going to be able to offer the same deal, because that wouldn't be fair.

It wouldn't be right. Okay. But if you were injured, we did get some emails of some people who are dying to get in who just couldn't afford the full thousand dollars right up front. And so we've got a three pay plan. It's going to be a little bit more expensive because you're paying in three installments.

And where you, you're only getting three of the bonuses instead of four. So to my way of thinking that is being honest, using honesty and integrity, because you gave the people who bought before the cart closed, you know that deal, and then you can come back and offer a payment plan that costs a little bit more money.

I'm not getting all the bonuses, but then you close it down and then it's truly closed out. Now, if someone doesn't want to do that, the other thing that you can do. Is that you could just stick to your cart close, you know, Hey, sorry. You missed it. How those people tagged. So whether you're doing it manually or whether you're doing it as a recurring evergreen launch, you can tag those folks.

And then when you have that. Launch happen again, you can send them back through that same funnel. Now, depending on how well you nurture your list in between launches is gonna really determine whether they're paying attention. You know, when you relaunch it, but you could have them go back through that process again.

In fact, I did another podcast with phone and James Franco where he was talking about how he tripled his membership sales by having basically an automated using deadline funnel, having an automated series of cart open cart closed, where. Once prospect's went through three times. If they went through three times and didn't buy, he scrubbed them off of the list.

It just happened automatically. And so all of this was set up automatically, and I forget exactly how much time it was between, I'm going to call it evergreen launch one, two and three, but call it maybe 45 days or 60 days between those. And so this would just happen automatically. So after they've gone through and they haven't jumped on it for the third time, they're removed from the list.

When he tripled his membership enrollment doing that. So those are a couple of different ways. But I would say that, but you could do it.

Jacques Hopkins: I do something a little similar to that. I basically will relaunch two people every four months. So if you go through it, go through the evergreen funnel, a in July for example, and go by, then you will get pitched it again four months later and so on.

And I don't remove people if they don't buy after a certain point. Cause I do have people that purchase that opted in five years ago. You know, and I just, I don't want to miss out on that sale. And for some people it's just like, you never know what's the right time for somebody. And that's why I just keep relaunching to the same group of people.

Jack Born: Well, and it also helps as your business grows. He, one of the, one of the huge benefits of whether it's your marketing that you're automating or other systems, anytime you can automate your business, you, you gain that leverage where you can focus your time and energy on other aspects of your business. No matter how big your business gets, you're, you have to shine the flashlight of your focus on one area of your business and sort of sort of like spinning plates.

You spend this one and get it going, spend this one, get it going. and so by using systems and automation, you can have your marketing up and running while you focus on other, other aspects of your business. So in your case, I think what you were talking about was you can have more than one product. So once you have something.

You've launched it. Maybe you've launched it a second time. Now you can evergreen eyes. And so once you have it on evergreen, you can build your next product or your next online course or an next coaching program. So you have something else. Well, now, once you have a multitude of different. Even too, or once you have to, you can get to three.

And as with anything, you get diminishing returns. But when you have more of a robust product line, when someone misses the first one, you don't necessarily have to wait four months. You could see if they're interested in. The other thing that's kind of related to it. So an example that I use sometimes is that I've helped a lot of people in the, Some online course instructors in the tennis space, and I'm big fan, like I play tennis all the time. And so, you know, so there'll be a course on how to hit a great serve. And if someone doesn't grab that, well, you could give them a cooling off period for a few days, few weeks, but they might be interested in your forehand course, for example.

So if you have a more robust catalog of things for them to choose from to improve their overall game, or you know, if it's relationship advice, there's probably different things that you could offer them. Almost always your clients are interested in other things that are very tangentially related. So as you can develop other courses, then you can have.

Multiple things that you're offering. One after the other. My recommendation there, just one more bit of advice would be that once someone purchases something, you really want to use some automation in your email system to tag them in a way where you try to give them what we call in the software world, an onboarding sequence where you really try to help them get the most they can out of the instruction that they purchased because, so in other words, don't try to hit them up with the next thing.

Really try to help them take them out of the marketing sequences for a bit. And really help them get the maximum amount of value that they can out of what they've just purchased from you. Because if they can get a result, I mean, th they didn't buy your online course just to just to spend the money. No one wakes up thinking, gosh, I hope someone pitches me an online course today, and no one wakes up hoping that they join a membership or that they, you know, sign up for that.

You know, I hope someone offers me. A pay by month or pay by year software service, like nobody wants that. What they want is they want a better life. They want an improved version of themselves, whether it's their relationship or their tennis game or their business, you know, whatever it is at work, your audience is passionate about your course, your product, your thing, your software fits into their lives only to the extent that it can take them from where they are to where they want to be.

So when they buy that thing, help them. Help them get action out of it. Don't become like, I'm sure you've seen the infomercials. I learned that I, I heard about this from Dan Kennedy, and if you've ever heard the intended talk, if you've ever been to one of his live trainings, it's kind of a dark and jaded guy.

You know, he's seen behind many layers of the marketing curtain and there. Anyways, I heard him talk, he's done a lot of, he consulted on a lot of the early infomercial products for. Infomercials for fitness products, and I remember him very clearly saying one time to the audience, he said, do you know why they make a big deal out of the fact that these home fitness products can fold up and fit under the bed and the room fell silent?

No one knew because they were waiting to hear what the real answer was. They said, because when they fit on the bed, people forget about it, and then they, you know, it's gone out of sight, out of mind. Now you don't want your online course to be that type of thing. You don't want your online course to be the type of thing where you're selling it with the hopes that they put it under the bets and the speed you want them to get use out of it.

Because if you're the one that comes along that finally gives them some measurable difference and improvement in their life, how easy is it going to be for you to have a client that wants to buy the next thing you have and the next thing you have. So I'm sorry, I want to in a different tangent, probably the overall theme, but hopefully that was useful.

I really think that it's going to, if you're playing the long game, you really want to, instead of just pitching them the next thing and the next thing, the next thing, try to get them to get, once they, once they invest in something. Invest in them and help them get the maximum benefit that they can out of it.

Jacques Hopkins: That was very valuable. I mean, a while back, before I spent much time on like onboarding, I remember getting a specific email that was like, dude, you email me every day when you were trying to pitch your product. But then once I bought it, I never heard from you again. And so that, you know, that really, I really took that to heart.

And so one of the pros to having an evergreen funnel now is it allows me to spend more time. On the back end on my students. You know, I send a personal video to everybody that signs up for my course because I don't have to spend much time on the marketing and the funnel anymore, you know? Yeah.

Jack Born: And that's the beautiful thing about.

Automating any part of your business? I mean, the, the concept here is, you know, my software in the concept that we teach helps, especially online course creators, but anyone selling anything online to automate their business, take what works in the launch process and automate it. And by the way, I should mention there's other ways to automate your marketing other than just a launch process.

So a lot of our course creators might have an automated webinar, or they might have a very simple, you know, sign up for a lead magnet. Develop know, like, and trust. Position yourself as a thought leader. Develop authority, but then at some point you have a deadline. So when you can automate your marketing, just like you said, you have the ability to focus your attention elsewhere because there's always some other area of your business that needs attention or would improve your overall business if you gave it your attention.

And if your entire focus on, Oh my gosh, how am I going to survive the up and down the feast and famine, the roller coaster ride of I'm launching and I'm just, you know, I'm making tons of money and then the launches are Irving, you're thinking, Oh my gosh, how am I gonna survive? Did I make enough on that launch to survive?

When am I gonna launch again? You don't have the ability to really focus on giving the love and attention to your clients that you could, or building your team. If I can talk about that for a second. The other, so again, I'm not against launches, I just think that they should be the cherry on top. They should be the gasoline you pour on the fire that's already burning rather than the only thing that keeps your business a lot.

Okay, so when you have your business, let's talk about the launch. So if you think the solution, your business is just go for bigger and bigger and bigger launches, there's a huge problem there. One of the problems. Oh, there's many pauses, but one of the big problems is that how are you, let's say that you're successful.

You're a genius marketer. You've probably seen this from the outside, but I can tell you that what can happen is if you get, if you have a successful launch that is bigger than you've ever had before, all of a sudden you've got client support. You've got people asking questions, and you need a team that's going to be able to support them.

So how are we going to go from prelaunch where you don't have that revenue to all of a sudden you've got tremendous amounts of new clients that just flooded your business. And they want support. They've got questions, they expect some love and attention because they have invested in you, they believed your marketing, and now they want some support.

So you either have to go on a quick hiring, I mean, when's the right time for you to hire that team? Okay. And to hire the right team. Contrast that to, if you've got your marketing on some sort of automation and you're trying to improve it over time, but basically you're bringing in a consistent and reliable amount of sales every single month.

You can work on split tests, you can work on different, you know, you can reach out to affiliates and partners and those sorts of things. But it gives you the stability and the confidence to be able to go out and to start to hire that next person, to hire the next person to hire the next person who makes smart.

Decisions so that when you make a launch, you've already got the team in place. I mean, they might be really busy, but you already have that team in place. Instead of that, you're going to have much lower refunds when you do that launch. So everyone has to start somewhere, and that I've said I think is my third time saying, I'm not against launching, but you're going to limit yourself and you're going to eventually hit a big wall in your business.

It's going to be tough to get around if you are only. Bringing in clients or revenue when you're launching. And so my big message is you need to automate your marketing. You need to have a consistent, reliable way of doing it. And if you, here's the other message, if you don't have a deadline on your promotions, you're missing out on so many sales.

If you were to go to our main site, Dublin and check out some of the case studies, it's one of the things I'm most proud of because the case studies represent people's lives that my team and I have been able to change. So for example, there's Abby, Ashley. Who, I'm not gonna. I'm not going to list out all the cases is they're there for you to look, but one of them in particular, I love this video because Abby Ashley is an online course creator.

She teaches virtual assistants how to improve their business, how to, how to get clients, how to really automate their business and run their virtual assistant business as a business. And I was interviewing her when I was on a trip to Sydney and we're on a call just like Ron right now. And I had no idea she was going to do this, but she said, you know, I said, so tell me about the before and after with deadline funnel.

She said, well, before I was doing $10,000 a month with my online course. Wow, that's really good. And she said, and the coach that I was going to told me that I need, if I wanted to take my business to the next level, I need to use deadline funnel. And without doing anything else, I went to $60,000 a month.

And the, the, the, the, it wasn't the words that she said so much as it was, you can just see the joy and light and happiness emanating from her soul. And she said this because it's not the money in the bank account. It's that sense that, you know, I did this, I made it, it, you know, they crossed over this, this difficult chasm of I'm doing well, but I'm still kind of struggling to.

I've got this thing figured out and it's onto the next challenge, and that's the type of transformation when we hear about it. I love sharing with my team because it's incredible to be able to see other people who are out there trying to earn livings for their families and to enjoy the lifestyle that we've all bought into.

And to see it actually become a reality and just the joy on people's faces is just amazing.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, that's a great story. I took a middle step there as compared to Abby because I kind of went from launches to more of a manual evergreen funnel. Then I found deadline funnels. So for me, I went from like $1,000 a month to $10,000 a month once I implemented an evergreen funnel.

But I was having to work really hard on it and I had VA's helping me because it was a very manual process. And so. Deadline funnel didn't necessarily tend to X my revenue, but it significantly, it saved me a ton of time and I guess money, if you count the contractors I was paying as well, because I was able to do, do everything I was doing already and make the same amount of money, if not more, but far less than my time and others people's time.

And it broke away last too. I mean, that's one of the things I love most about deadline funnel. I've been using it for years and it's an incredibly important part of my funnel. And it never breaks. It just always works. So props to you on that, Jack.

Jack Born: Yeah. Well, it's like I said, it's, it's one of, I laugh sometimes because if, I think this is true of a lot of our businesses, but it is certainly true of this one.

If you had taken me back in time and given me the, the foresight to know how challenging it was going to be. I may not have started this. It was one of those things like, I'm glad I didn't know what I didn't know because you kind of get into it, you figure it out as you go. So luckily I have an extremely talented team and we continue to add team members and we're very, very dedicated.

And what keeps us going are stories like yours, stories like Arby's and, and your story is very similar to to Nick Stevenson story. And I want to tell this story real quick because I think what you just described, your evolution. As I'm about to paint is very similar to Nick's evolution, and I think it's really the quickest way for anyone out there who's thinking, okay, what Jack is talking about makes sense to me, but how do I do that?

Like how am I supposed to just scrap everything that I've got and start creating something new? What should I do? What's the first step. So real quick. Nick's story was very similar to yours. Did launches, did another launch, does another launch. Then he started automating it, but he had the sense it was this finely tuned machine, but he had this sense that, you know, people are probably going cold while they're joining my list for this free lead magnet, and they're waiting around.

If they didn't come in at the right time, that might be waiting two or three weeks before that launch rolls around and they're probably going cold. And you know what? What if I could automate this? That led him to our doorstep. So he took a finally two rooms. Launch mechanism that was doing very well for him, and by using our software and our tools and training, he was able to do totally automated, too far, far less, almost nothing.

Once it got going, any increases sales 38% now 38% may not sound like a whole lot. But just to put it into perspective, if of course screeners making a hundred grand and someone came along and said, Hey, guess what? I could reduce her workload by more than 50% Oh and you're gonna make an extra 38 grand.

It's a really good deal. So, so that was Nick's journey as well. And so the reason why I want to tell that is because it's very similar to yours, and I think it's a great way for online course creators to take what's already working. Because look. If you did a launch, what that means is that you put a message out into the marketplace that resonated with complete strangers and convinced them to put in their credit card details into an online form and to pay you money for words that you run on a paper and for videos that you put online.

That is amazing. Okay, so let's just stop and applaud that for a second because you convinced strangers in some other part of the world to give you money because you're going to change their life. So rather than just scrapping all of that and starting, starting over from ground zero, you can take that and you can automate it.

You can set it up so that someone comes into your email sequence and there's a multiday not multi-week, but a multi day waiting period. And then you can bring them right into the launch process and then end with a deadline. And that's a very, very effective way to do it. So you're taking almost everything that you've got.

And you're automating it, so it's a much, much quicker way rather than starting over with something completely brand new. I

Jacques Hopkins: love talking to you about this because obviously you're passionate about funnels and evergreen funnels, but you also seem to be pretty passionate about online courses. There's so many just golden nuggets.

You're, you're, you're putting out there right now. And by the way, I know Abby, Abby, Ashley, well, she's been on this podcast. I'm looking back. It was episode 37. She's just crushing it with their online courses and forever you can funnel, and I'm actually in a weekly mastermind with her. She's

Jack Born: doing really, really well, and she's, she's awesome.

And it just blew me away. Like I said, not just what she said, but just to see the joy on her face. And you know, going back to what I said before about the onboarding thing, you know, because I'm in the software world. Onboarding is such a big deal. You know, we bring people into a 14 day free trial, and if they aren't seeing success, if they haven't taken action, canceled, they don't go forward.

And so we have to make more than one sale. We have to sell them on the potential of this could be a huge win for you. So try this out for free. And then we have to sell them on keeping it. And so that's what the onboarding process is for, not just for us, but also for them to help them actually get use out of it.

But it's something that online course creators I think really could benefit from paying attention to is, Oh, let's take a look at some of the most successful software products and just see like how, what is their philosophy behind it? One of the things I want to share is what is the quickest way.

That you can help a new client get a small but meaningful win. So in other words, if your, okay, so let's take your business. You teach people how to create online courses. Maybe the quickest, biggest win would be to to turn on their iPhone and to record, you know, you give them a basic script and you have them record, hi, my name is Jack Warren, and I want to know, tell you about my online course.

Or you walk them through, you know, the a, some sort of pain, agitate, solve real simple formula. And in two minutes I've got a video that they can put on their page that sells our course. Whether it's that or something else, it's like it's not the entire thing. It's not, you know, Hey, you don't get a win. And so you've completely built out your course and you've launched it.

What's something that you can do that is a huge step forward where you can, you guys can symbolically have this, have this high five together, like Holy crap. Like, look what I made. I made this opt in form. I've got a lead magnet, you know, something that they've never been able to do before. So that's, that's a really powerful concept that the software world knows about that I don't think as many course creators understand, is really thinking, okay, how can I, how can I get them to the first?

If you think of what you're teaching them as 12 stepping stones across this dangerous river, how can you get, how can your first week or 10 days of emails get them to that first stepping stone? And get them all the, you know, get them to that first little baby step where they can applaud themselves and celebrate that win with you.

And that's a powerful thing that can get them motivated to take the next step and the next step. And before they know it, they've done the thing that they've made the transformation. That was the whole reason why they sign up and gave you money. And now they're clients for life and they're going to tell the world because you changed their life.

But if all you're doing is putting all of you, I think the email that you got from that client is brilliant because. I've mentioned this before, is that what if we took all of the tools of persuasion and marketing and the communication, and instead of just putting that on the front end to get someone to finally bring out their credit card and pay you.

And what if we put some of that on the back end and put as much attention into the first week if someone's a client, as we do the week before they become a client. Yeah.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. It means just talking to you is light me up to want to do that even more. I think obviously we, we once have successful students.

If we didn't, we wouldn't have an online course. I mean, I think testimonials are a huge part of being able to sell as well. And it's, if people aren't succeeding with your course, then you're not going to be around for the long term. So I want to ask you a couple of questions on like how would you respond to this?

I have had people that opt into my funnel. For my piano course and pretty much right away they'll get a feeling that it's, it's evergreen. And they'll say, Hey, I'm into marketing too. You know, I'm sure this is just an evergreen funnel. Can I just buy now? Or something like that. How would you respond to that?

So let me ask a few more details. How, how many days is your course is my, is my funnel? Sorry, I'm sorry. Is your phone? Yes. How many days is your funnel?

Right? So open cart starts about day seven and closes about day 12.

Jack Born: Okay. I mean, if your, I don't know if this is true in your situation, but I'm getting guessed that it is, if sometimes the lead up in the groundwork that you're laying doesn't just help make the sale, but also gets them to the point where they're, they're ready to hear your message and the way that you explain things differently.

Skipping past that would just make it feel like, yeah, you're just another piano course. Okay. As an example, going back, I've been doing this for a long time, so my business has evolved over the years, so like 10 years ago or more, I had some content that would bring people into my world and request a consultation to see if I would do coding for them.

Okay. This is a long time ago. People who went through that process and saw some of the case studies that I had and heard the transformations that I've made for other people. They came to the consultation hoping that I had a spot in my calendar and it really wasn't a matter of price. Okay. Price really wasn't the issue.

Whereas if someone heard like, Oh yeah, this guy's a coder over here, and they just emailed me out of the blue, I would get people saying, this is highway robbery. Like the quotes that you gave me is just ludicrous and ridiculous. And you're like, how do you sleep at night? And it really wasn't that much actually.

But the point is, is that. If people don't hear the entire story, a lot of times they're not going to appreciate what you're delivering to them because they're going to look at it as just another piano. Of course, you know, but it's in the process of going through your marketing. You explain how the thought process that went into this is different than other piano courses.

Then their mind is open in a way that otherwise it wouldn't be so. I mean, I would have something much more succinct, if that's true for your situation, I would have something much more succinct that would explain, you know, the, the cart, you'll be able to buy it in three days, but the videos that are coming out are really important for you to see.

And I understand if you. Simply don't have the time. But what we've found is that if we just send people to the purchase page, they don't have the same level of success as our other clients. Well, again, I'm having to make this up on the spot. If this is true of your situation, and this is what I would hang it on, is that we want you to succeed.

And we've found that the people who, you know, in the past when we've just. Some people to the payment page. They don't understand how this is different than other piano courses out there. They don't put it in the same level of dedication, and as a result, they end up refunding. We lose out and you lose out and it just doesn't work out that way.

If you can just hang in there for two or three days, you're going to learn something. About how to become a better piano player. Along with you'll learn how the frustrations that I have helped me to arrive at the point where I have a completely different methodology of teaching you how to play the piano.

Does that make sense?

Jacques Hopkins: It does. It does. I'm going to have to go back and review this and, and make notes so that I can respond properly the next time that happens. So let me ask a similar question on the back end. Cards closed the next morning. This happens a good bit. People begging to get in, right? And sometimes it's viable excuses, like, you know, technology wasn't working that, you know, their iPad died or whatever.

If somebody, the next day after the cart closed, begging you to get in, how do you respond?

Jack Born: Okay. So what I typically would do, so we talked earlier about the possibility of having like a, a payment plan effort. So in my eyes has gotta be a totally different deal or a very significantly different deal than they were able to get before.

But if you don't want to go that route. What I would do, and this is tough love, but I think in the long run it will pay off. Here's what I would do. What I would do is I would tell them no kindly and say, you know, we will offer this again. I'll make sure that you're on the early bird list until we understand the life comes up.

But I really have to be honest to what I say. I hope you can respect. My, you know, I live up to my promises and I promise that my promise to you is that when you become a client, it will be well worth the wait. Okay. and, my team will be there for you and, and dedicated to help you become the best piano player that you can be.

Then what I would do is I would make sure that the name is removed and he's sort of email details is removed. I would take a screenshot of that and I would then use that in my marketing and I w. and so in the final day emails, and by the way, here's a big tip. If so, I've given, I think I've given some some good ones, but here's another one on the last day.

So every promotion needs a deadline, or else we're leaving tremendous amounts of money on the table and you're losing out on the opportunity to transform lives. On the last day before your deadline, send out three emails. So do not fall into the ALIF. The misguided belief that just because you send out an email, people are opening and reading every single one.

People's lives are busy. People will procrastinate, they'll delay. So if you're not sending out three emails, send out three emails, you will make more money and you'll have fewer people asking you, you know, Oh, I forgot dog ate my homework, et cetera. So that's one way around it. But in one of those three last day emails, I would include.

Photo documentation, proof, screenshots of, look, I am not kidding. Like if you are interested in, if you've been paying attention, if you're reading this email and you are serious about becoming the best piano player that you can be and you're frustrated with the old school methods of rote memorization and this and that and the other thing.

I know that you have some questions. I know you have some concerns, but one thing I can guarantee you is that the opportunity you have right now is closing tonight. And here's a screenshot. I don't want you to miss up. I don't want you to be on the outside of the glass, fogging it up, looking in and waiting for the next time that we open it up because tonight that is happening.

So if you are interested, if you are serious, and if you believe in yourself. I am there. My team is there to help you make that transformation. But you got to take action now and now's the last time. So you use that as as proof to back up what you're saying. And by the way, I would recommend here's another.

So in in that ad hoc copywriting that I did, I want to point out something that I did in the copy. As you get close. So in the beginning, when someone first joins your launch or your lead sequence, however you have your funnel set up. You don't want to be hammering on the deadline. In fact, what I recommend is that you hide the deadline until the last three days and the launch funnel lets you do this automatically, but in your email and in your copy, you don't want to be hammering the deadline.

You want to be talking about the life transformation. You want to be talking about social proof. You want to be talking about future pacing, the growth and the transformation that they're going to experience. And what are some of the components that are in your training. But as you get closer towards the deadline, it becomes more and more and more about the deadline.

And on the last day, one of the things, this idea of people are more motivated, especially the people who waited to this point. They're motivated by fear of loss more than they are by the potential cane. So in the copy that I just gave you off the top of my head, I painted a picture where this opportunity is in your hands right now.

So I'm speaking one-on-one. So you have this opportunity right now is like a golden ticket to this transformation that you want. If you're interested in this, and if you want to become a better piano player, you have an opportunity. I'm giving you these lectures, these bonuses. I'm giving you the support, this extra consultation, and it's here right now.

You have this opportunity, but one thing is for certain. This is going away. That opportunity you have right now is disappearing tonight. So it's that language of they have something and it's being taken away. And the reason why I phrase it like that, there is a very interesting study that was done at, I believe Duke university maybe off.

But anyways, it was some university where. It's fascinating how this works. They took a, they took this huge auditorium, so imagine a psychology one-on-one auditorium, just hundreds of students, and half of the auditorium was given a mug and it has the university crest on him. It's nothing special because everyone gets a free mug.

Here you go. So then they passed out slips of paper and they had the entire room. So imagine this, half the room has a mug. Half the room didn't get a mug. And so the group that didn't get the mug is asked, how much would you pay to buy one of these moms that we gave out to the other group? The other half is given a different question.

I say, how much would you have to be paid for you to then trade your mug to give up your moat? The price was double for the people who had the mug and had to give it up. It's the same mug, but the average price was double. So if people who didn't have the mug are willing to pay two bucks, let's say the people who have the mug said, no, you would have to pay me $4 to give up this month.

Why? Because they had it. People don't like stuff being taken away from them. So the more that you can just in your copy paint this picture of you have this opportunity, it's here. Now you've got the ticket to transform your life to become a better piano player. The how, the business of your dreams, how the relationship you've always wanted, whatever it happens to be, but it's here and now and it's going to disappear.

It's going to vanish. If you wait, it's going away. So don't let it slip between your fingers. Take hold of it now and do something with it before it's taken away from you tonight. So that copywriting of you have it in your hands. You want to paint this picture of you have it in your hands and it's going to slip through your fingers if you don't take action.

Jacques Hopkins: I'm a little upset right now because now I want to be up all night, like restructuring my whole emails and my funnel just based on this conversation.

Jack Born: Well, hopefully this was helpful for you.

Jacques Hopkins: No, I think it's a, it's incredibly helpful. I'm learning so much myself. let me jump back over to a couple of audience questions here.

Let's see. What are some structures of successful evergreen funnels? People listening to this podcast are probably familiar with webinar funnels and product launch formula funnels. Anything else

Jack Born: besides those two. Well in our business of helping people increase conversions and doing it automatically using deadline funnel, we've seen pretty much every funnel under the sun.

I would prefer I throw out some other ideas. I would say for anyone who's, you know, I just want to bring us back to what I've already covered, which is if you, you should take what you've already done and try to milk as much as you can out of that. Meaning, if you've already done a product launch and it was successful, even just one, if it was successful, I would start by automating that because the shortest route you're taking what you've already have marketing that already worked and you're going to automate it.

Okay? Once you've done that. And you now what the, what that's done is that's freed up your time. Maybe you work on your onboarding process. Maybe you go hire someone, maybe start creating the next product. It's up to you because you have the freedom to do that now because you've automated the marketing.

Maybe what you also work on is what is, you know, in, in direct response marketing for in the big leagues, they have this concept of beat the control. So if they've got a direct mail piece, it goes back quite a ways. But you know, back when people actually sent mail in the mailbox, there were direct mail pieces.

And so if a company, a large direct mail company had one that was working, they would try to beat the control. And. And the online world, we call that split testing. So you can either do a split test where it's a very simple thing where you're changing a headline or an offer, or you could do something where you can say, okay, I've got the launch evergreen eyes, but what if I wanted to try a webinar funnel?

Or what if I wanted to do, you know, say a virtual summit or a video sales letter, or just a simple email series. You know, maybe it starts with a blog post. Again, goes to a content upgrade. Goes through a 10 day email series, but on day 10 there's three emails sent out, and then there's a deadline. So I think those are some of the main ones.

I mean, some of the main ones I would say would be a simple opt in to, some people call it a free online course, which would be your email series. Or, you know, they're opting in for a lead magnet and they get an email series. But that would be, that would really be the simplest one. A little bit more complex would be a webinar, an automated webinar.

And one of our, by the way, one of our biggest, lead generators is our webinar platforms, like ever webinar or an easy webinar in the legs. Because although they have typically cow clocks on them, our system actually makes it. Synchronize with the emails and everything so that it's consistent. And so it, it really does if you're gonna have a deadline to your promotion.

So my philosophy is you're, in order for you to get the maximum amount out of your marketing, you need to have a deadline. If you're gonna have a deadline, you want it to be authentic. And if it's going to be authentic, it's really no choice but Dublin funnel. I mean, that's, that's my commercial for the life phone.

But I truly, truly believe that. So back to the funnels video sales letter. I mean, do you want me to just list out different funnels? Because probably for a course creator, I would say that the three top ones would be an evergreen I's launch in a, and even inside the concept of under the umbrella of a launch.

Some people want me to do the three videos, you know, the PLF style launch. Other people have a different style of launch. Like there's, there's more than one way to do a product launch. But there's the evergreen as launch. There's the automated webinar, and then there's the email sequence. I would say that those are, those are the main ones, but then we do, we have things where you can, if anyone's interested in doing or is currently using things like many chat or things called Chatfuel, these Facebook messenger bots, we can, our systems synchronizes up with that.

You can use that in your marketing, either as your main funnel or as an adjunct to your funnel and add onto your funnel. I would say the three that I listed are really the main ones that people come to the table with.

Jacques Hopkins: All right, so you mentioned webinar software being a kind of a good source of leads to your business deadline funnel.

That brings me to what will probably be the last kind of audience question that I ask you, and this question comes from Nate Dotson, who is a customer of yours. He's been using it for probably a couple of years. He sells a course on growing and selling microgreens. He's doing about $60,000 a month, just absolutely killing it.

Evergreen webinar is a big part of his funnel. But he absolutely hates ever webinar, which is what he's using. And he loves deadline funnel. And he said, ask him when he'll create some good evergreen webinar software.

Jack Born: Oh, that's interesting. See, I, I, I actually did, went down the road of creating webinar platform and got about 75% of the way done and decided, no, this is not the direction that we're going to go, which is, by the way, a quick, quick lesson there.

There's a concept of sunk costs that I think everyone should be well versed in. You can just Google sunk. S U N K. cause. so the concept is if we're playing, it doesn't have to be poker, but, but a great analogy is poker. The most successful poker players will even after the bet, several rounds, and they've even raised several rounds.

So it comes around yet, I'll see your 100 bucks and I'll raise another a hundred like even after they've done that same route, same hand of poker. If the odds turn against them when the next card is turned up, they'll fold. Like as soon as it mathematically it doesn't make sense anymore, they'll fall. So the whole idea is it doesn't matter what you've already put into the pot that's done.

So what that means is that as you're making business decisions. I just want to point out that if regardless of how much you've spent, how much time is put into something, you have to make decisions based on the here and now. Like what am I going to do in the next six weeks, six months, six years? Don't worry about money that you've already spent or the heartache that you've already put into it.

If you've got a, you know, backtrack or completely kill an idea, if that's the right move for you, that's the right move. So unfortunately. We decided to, well, it is what it is. We decided not to move forward with that. However, here's, I'd be, Nate, if you're listening, I'd be very interested to test this out with you.

So I've got, I've got a, a very strong theory that I want to test out. My theory revolves around, basically not doing. Taking the replay and not trying to even pretend that the replay is a live webinar, but positioning it as a replay in a very particular way. And without going into too many details, there is a way that I believe that it can be positioned as a replay where it's still valuable and still very attractive to watch right now.

And then of course, there's a deadline at the end of it, and I think. my hypothesis is that it will convert to this as well. And it really would be, I mean, there's specific copy that I would put on the page to get in to watch the webinar and then copy afterwards in order to make this work. But. In essence, it would be an opt in to a video where you're not pretending that it's a automated webinar at all.

And then there's a deadline built in, as we already talked about, synchronized with your email system and your order pages and your payment pages, all these sorts of things. So that is a true, honest, automated deadline. And so if anyone is interested in testing that theory out, you can contact me. Through our help desk, help Dylan, because really what I want to do is I want to test that theory out.

It's a lot of clients and see if it, see if it will convert just as well.

Jacques Hopkins: That's really interesting. I might have to contact you at that email address, Jack, because my open carts about day seven and closes about day 12 but what I did about six or eight months ago was I had substandard product launch formula launch.

I added a webinar at the beginning so that the people that were just really hot. Could register for the webinar and actually purchase on day zero one two and that proved to be very effective. So I use ever webinar. It's really a really powerful, Nate has kind of a similar funnel, but one thing that Nate does differently than me is I use the just-in-time feature for my evergreen webinar where it's like if you go to register at 10:03 AM well, then you're going to be able to register for the 10:15 AM webinar.

Instead of the Justin time feature uses the view yesterday's recording feature, and so you can either schedule, you know tonight's webinar or tomorrow's webinar or her him, you can click view yesterday's recording, which it sounds like is closer to what you're talking about, but I think there's a few elements that you're keeping under wraps.

For now. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I don't want to get too deep in the, in the weeds right now, and I would like to work with some people, like a small cohort or a group of people one-on-one to test this out. But really the primary difference between say the Justin time and what I'm talking about, the size, the copy would be that even with the Justin time, the perception that is trying to be painted is that there's this webinar and you can, you know, you can watch it.

Jack Born: My, you know, the way that I would be positioning it would be more along the lines of, there's this webinar recording and you could watch it. The copy is going to be much better than that. But that's the basic idea. So everyone coming in understands this is not live. And in some ways that's good because here's the thing.

A lot of people have done live webinars that. Could not just be uploaded into ever webinar and run as an automated webinar for a variety of reasons. People say things on the webinar that all of a sudden make it clear that it's Tuesday or is January, or you've got the clock in the upper right hand corner, things like that.

So there's all these. Webinar recordings. If people have done a successful webinars that are, once they're done, they're sitting on your hard drive, not making any money, but they made money the first time that you ran them, including think about this, including webinars that you've done with a partner. So I have some of our most successful.

Promotions. One of our most successful channels is word of mouth. There's free word of mouth and paid word amount, so on paid or word of mouth side. We've done partner promotions where someone who uses Dublin phone like you do, we'll invite their audience to hear about some of the things that I've been talking about is a very educational thing, but yes, there is a special offer at the end and that's very successful, but then that's done.

What if you could turn around and say, for the partner, Hey, even though we did this recorded webinar. Here's a way of set this up. Here's five or six emails that in the page where you could just stick this on your autoresponder and it's going to work and you're not having to paint this image that this is a webinar that you're doing.

Now, the webinars already been done and we're not even trying to pretend otherwise, but people are going to watch it. People are going to pay attention to. People are gonna take action and you're going to make permissions. Boom, you're going to make, not only did you make a nice commission check. Today, but now it's set up an automated in your funnels.

You're going to continue to make money week after week after week. And so I think it's a very powerful way to take the assets that we've already created. As you can tell, I'm a big believer in trying to figure out what if you took what worked and you did manually one time. And figure out a way to automate it in a way where you can sleep well at night, but it's working in your business and all those little things add up and give you additional freedom and additional resources to be able to add more team to be able to grow your business by more advertising.

By the way, I really didn't, it doesn't fit perfectly right here, but I want to mention that. If anyone has done Facebook advertising or Google advertising where you feel like, you know, I did this advertising. It's just like I'm not making sales. I'm sending them to this lead magnet on bring them through the email series and I'm making a few sales, but I'm spending 200 on Facebook to make a hundred back in sales.

Well, what if you increase your conversion rate. And all of a sudden instead of spending 200 to make a hundred you're spending 200 to make 300 well now you can scale your business. And so that's another reason why getting all of the people who are paying attention to your emails, watching your videos go into your webinars, all the people who are possibly interested to take action.

And one of the things, one of the most reliable things that can do that as a deadline, which is why a lot of our case studies and testimonials talk are people who are advertising on Facebook. And they said, finally, I can scale my business. Like I can take this revenue. Plow it back into my business and increase the speed at which I can reach other people who are going to become clients for life.

And so that's, that's another big reason why increasing your conversions is so, so powerful.

Jacques Hopkins: JAG, this has just been a huge wealth of knowledge here. What else? Do you have anything else that you want to share with this audience? Of course graders.

Jack Born: That's a broad, broad question.

Jacques Hopkins: Not that you haven't, but I mean, I'm just, we're wrapping it up here. we've kind of exhausted most of the big questions I wanted to ask you, and I just wanted to open the floor for you for if there's anything else that you wanted to mention to this particular audience.

Jack Born: Yeah. So as with anything, I've tried to be as specific where I can be and to give pointers and tips, but for example, if you're listening to this podcast interview and you're thinking, okay.

This might be for me, but I need more details. I need to know, like how would you actually take a manually done launch and how would you evergreen as, I just don't see it. Like how, like you're just baffled, like how could that be done? If we could do in the show notes, I'll, we'll link to an article that's a three part series that I'm just now releasing as of as of this week.

That should be ready by the time this interview goes live where you can go through and you can understand, and I've laid it out step by step by step. I've used an example of how you can go Shrew and there's additional material that you can sign up for if it makes sense for if you want to take a look, it's just an opt in to free training, but the actual three-part article is completely free.

You can just go take a look and see if it makes sense for you and decided from that point if you want to see how deep the rabbit hole goes, but. If you're, what I would say is if you see the potential, don't let your doubts and anxiety about it. You know, for example, anxiety might be anxiety about, Oh, this sounds like technology and it sounds scary and I got to know how to do code.

You don't, you know, don't let that stand in the way. So we'll link to that in the show notes, if that's okay with you.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, of course. That sounds like a really, really good resource. And I think, you know, we've been talking for probably an hour now. And I think if anybody's listening to this point, then you've probably built up a great deal of trust with anybody listening I know you have with me.

And so if somebody is still listening at this point, I think that's definitely a great next place to go. So I'll certainly have that in the show notes for any body listening and Jack, just really appreciate you coming on. This has been an incredible resource. Thank you so much.

Jack Born: Oh, thank you for the opportunity. As you can tell, I'm very passionate about this topic and you know, my team is also very passionate about helping people as well. And you know, we're, we're here to, to support you. I, I want to see online course creators succeed so that you can spread the word. Each one of you can spread the spread the message that you have and.

So the way that that message spreads is that the more profitable your marketing is, the more resources that you have to hire the team that you need to build, that that business is going to share your vision with the world. And it all starts with making sure that your communication reaches as many people as possible.

It gets as many. People who want to have the change that you offer to actually take action, and that's what a dope line does. So if you're at all curious, give us an opportunity because we're on your side and we want to see you succeed.

Jacques Hopkins: Thanks Jack. All right guys, that is going to do it for this episode of the online course show.

I hope that you enjoyed that episode as much as I did. Talking with Jack born and also listening back to this episode. This is one of the most action packed and just something that I truly learned from. Throughout the entire conversation, and I hope you feel the same as well. If you are not using deadline funnel, but you think it might be a good fit in your business, here's what I want to do for you.

Like Jack mentioned, they offer a 14 day free trial and you can go do that, but if you sign up through my affiliate link and I will send you a free course. On how to set this up properly for all nine courses and exactly how I've got mine set up for piano in 21 days. So if that's of interest to you, and what you need to do is go ahead and sign up for the free trial of deadline funnel using my affiliate link by going to the online course, funnel or like I said in the intro, you can just go to the online course,

Click on tools at the top and you'll see all my favorite tools for all nine courses and deadline funnel is certainly in there, and you can click the link there as well. And you can find all the show notes from today's episode by going to the online course, 96 and toward the end of the conversation, Jack mentioned some special training for course creators, and so that will be in the show notes, so definitely check that out.

He's got some just really valuable resources. It's not just some software he created. And then doesn't do much else. He's constantly creating new content around his software and especially about online courses. He told me off air that absolutely his top customer is online. Course graders, like that's the majority of the customers he has for deadline funnel because it just, they work so well together.

So check out that content from Jack at the link in the show notes. Once again, that's the online course, 96 and guys, that's going to do it for another episode. I hope that we can continue bringing you. Content as good as this episode. I will certainly try and we will see you then for the next episode.