I love using my podcast platform to tap into the knowledge of other successful course creators, and that’s exactly what we’re doing today! Graham Cochrane has been involved in the world of course creation for a while now, and it was a pleasure to get to know him a bit – and hear his insights on the online courses.

A good online course gets people results.

Graham Cochrane

Graham had a lot to share, from evergreen vs. launch models and personal branding to favorite tools and working while traveling!

In This Episode, We Talked About:

  • (2:02) How Graham first got into creating online courses
  • (3:43) What course creation looked like a decade ago
  • (4:46) Were Graham’s courses an instant success?
  • (6:23) The secret to getting YouTube subscribers and building an email list
  • (8:54) How to stay motivated to keep generating new videos
  • (12:42) What Graham would do differently if he was starting over
  • (14:30) An overview of his sales funnel setup
  • (16:15) Handling evergreen sales with webinars
  • (16:57) Graham’s favorite online course tools
  • (17:32) The different facets of his business
  • (20:39) Keeping up with work while traveling
  • (21:36) Graham’s online course team
  • (22:05) What a successful online course business has meant to Graham and his family
  • (24:26) His best advice for new course creators
  • (25:53) How to connect with Graham

Thank you for listening in – I hope you enjoyed what you heard! I’ll be back with another interview episode soon.

Jacques Hopkins: Regular people are taking their knowledge and content, packaging it up in an online course and they're making a living doing, but not everyone is successful with online courses. There's a right way and there's a wrong way, and I'm here to help course creators actually succeed with all nine courses. Hi, I'm Jacques Hopkins, and this is the online course show.

Hey, everyone, a jock here, and welcome to episode one Oh four of the online course show. If you're new here, welcome. My name is Jacques Hopkins. I'm your host, and I absolutely love online courses. My own online courses on the topic of piano, which I started back in 2013 and to date it has brought in over one point $2 million, and more importantly, it's helping people all over the world learn piano who never thought they would be able to.

And today, along with running piano in 21 days.com I share what I've learned about online courses through channels like this very. Podcast and a lot of the time on this podcast, I'll feature another course creator so that you can get insights from other people and not just me. And so that's exactly what we're doing today.

On this episode where I'm joined by Graham Cochrane of recording revolution.com and if you've ever looked up an audio question on YouTube, then you've probably stumbled across one of Graham's videos there because he has. Over 500,000 YouTube subscribers. And then of course, he has courses on his site as well and has been wildly successful, but more importantly, he's just a genuine guy.

He's a family man, and it was just an overall pleasure meeting and getting to know Graham a little bit more. So with that, let's go ahead and jump into the full interview or right now.

Hey Greg, welcome to the online course show.

Graham Cochrane: Hey, thanks for having me.

Jacques Hopkins: My pleasure, man. Look, I know this is a bit of a loaded question, but let's see where this goes. How did you get into online courses?

Graham Cochrane: By accident, I mean by needing to figure out how to make money online. When I was trying to do freelance work. I started putting out videos and articles around my niche and I realized that there was an audience there that wanted to know more about the education kind of thing, and I was just trying to use content to get discovered to do freelance stuff.

And once I realized there was more people interested in what I had to say or how I could help them get results by teaching them, I thought maybe I could monetize. The videos in some way, and that's, I stumbled into creating an online course cause that seemed to make the most sense. I didn't know that's what I was doing at the time, but that's what I ended up getting into about 10 years ago.

Jacques Hopkins: What were you doing that led to the freelance work, right? Is that what you've always done as your work?

Graham Cochrane: Yeah, it's always been part of my work. So I went to school as an audio engineer to record and mix bands, and then when I was working in a studio and realize I hated the environment and prefer to just do on my own, do freelance on my own, that's always been a part of my rhythm.

But there was a solid three years where I had a day job and it was just nights and weekends, so it was extra money. It was no stress, no pressure. But we moved to Florida about 10 years ago to help my buddy start a church down here, and we just picked up and moved and we're like, yeah, we'll come help out.

And I've got a job and lost that job. Five months into moving here because of the recession, the company ran out of money, and so I ran, I ran out of money, I guess, and started to try to ramp up freelance work full time. So there was that pressure to let's just do this full time. And that's when I started to create content online, hoping that I could get more clients.

Jacques Hopkins: Courses are pretty popular today, but 10 years ago I would say they were not very popular online courses. What are the steps that you took back then to actually create an online course?

Graham Cochrane: It was pretty basic man. I, I had a program called snaps pro X and I used it for screen capture and I just would, cause what I was teaching was how to use a certain piece of software right in the audio world.

And so it was just like screen capturing my screen and, and I just would talk into a microphone and explain what I was doing. And I kind of mapped out, I viewed it as like longer YouTube videos cause I was doing tutorials already. In my niche. So I figured if I wanted to teach this piece of software, it probably take me three to four hours.

So I broke it up into logical chapters, which ended up being video modules, shot these eight or 10 videos, and then here's what I did. I zipped them all up, put them on my GoDaddy, $3 a month hosting and created a PayPal link and a free little web website and had a button that just like paid me by PayPal and delivered them a zip file they could download.

Jacques Hopkins: Dude. That is awesome that I think that exact method of delivery is the first I've heard here, but that's kind of what you had to do 10 years ago. I mean, the thing get fixed and the teachables and the click funnels of the world didn't really exist back then. Was that pretty successful from the start for you?

Graham Cochrane: I mean, it was, I made money at first, so I thought that was great, but literally for about a year or two, that was kind of the model I rolled and I just figured as I grew my audience, I'd have more people to sell to and I could build that more products. So I was just pumping out as many courses as I could.

I didn't know that this was a thing. I think some people were selling courses back then, but you're right, it's not like it is today. I just knew I needed to. The people like my free videos. I'm sure they would pay for way more in depth time with me via video, and I didn't know about even the junkies or send of the world where you could even automatically better send us it, file them.

The PayPal will link, which didn't quite work very well at the time, so it was clunky, but I've learned a lesson of it doesn't matter as long as you get the content to the people in, they're happy with it and you get paid. That's a baseline. That's what you want to do. I mean, since then, obviously like you've listed a bunch of other tools that have come out that have made my life a lot easier, but it works.

Jacques Hopkins: How did you promote it back then? Was it just on the YouTube channel?

Graham Cochrane: Dude, I've never promoted really on the YouTube channel. It's all in the email list. So I was collecting emails from day one. I think I'd read an article back in 2009 that said, Hey, you should collect an email list or build an email list.

And I think that was like the best advice I wasn't looking for back then because that became the foundation of my business. So yeah, I would do YouTube videos and articles, always offer some kind of lead magnet or opt in. At the end of that, I can get people to join my email list and then I would sell to my email list and it's basically the same today.

Jacques Hopkins: Nice. So what would you say is your secret to getting 520,000 subscribers on YouTube.

Graham Cochrane: Well, the 80 20 rule, I mean, if you dig into my videos, right? You'll see the 80 20 rule in effect, right? There's a small collection of videos that generate most of the views and most of the watch time and probably most of the subscriptions.

And so I think I got lucky in terms of like, you never know what content will stick. I think I've created. I think all my videos are great and helpful, but there's always that small percentage that just seem to resonate with people. And when they resonate, people engage. And when they engage, the algorithm favors it.

And then it just self-perpetuates. So I think, the strategy is, know your audience and create a wide variety of content. So you figured out what's really sticking and then do more of that. And the abundance of content. I was pumping out three pieces of content per week, every week for four years. One of those was a video every week.

So I've always done a video every week, but over time I figured out a couple of videos that really popped in. Again, I'll have a video that has over 2 million views on it, and then I'll do a video that I think is just as great and I'll get like 5,000 views on it. So I was like, I'm not that smart. It's just there's, some of the videos really have popped in. It's all lopsided. And so if you can get the traffic and even through one or two big videos, it really works.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, I've got your, I've got your video sorted right now by most popular at, see, you've got two with over a million views. How to build a home studio for under $350 has 2.2 million views two years ago, and then the next one has a million views.

Five key home studio components was made seven years ago. When you were recording that video seven years ago, did you have any concept of how well that would be working for you for seven years?

Graham Cochrane: No, no, and that's what I love about it is the evergreen nature of YouTube content or blog content too. But it was a relevant video that answered questions seven years ago that I was getting.

I knew it would be helpful, and it wasn't a viral video. Like if you look at that, you think, Oh, it's got a million views, and some guys on YouTube can get a million views and an afternoon. I can't do that. I haven't been able to do that, but over seven years, it's a slowly growing helpful, everyday video that just is boring and it sends me traffic and subscribers that go into my email funnel that bind my courses.

So that's like the non-glamorous picture of how my business works is you just pump out great content every single week and knowing that 20% maybe 10% maybe 4% will really stick and will serve you really, really well longterm.

Jacques Hopkins: So I'm curious your thoughts on the motivation behind that. And what I mean is I don't have near as many subscribers as you do on YouTube. It is a big traffic source for me as well. I've got about 50,000 subscribers, but I've got these two videos that are right about a million views, and that's where almost all the traffic comes from. It's probably not even 80 20 it's probably like 95 five and then I put out a new video. And you know, you check it a couple of days later, it's got 250 views, you know, and then a couple of weeks later it's got 543 views. It's like, where do you find the motivation to keep putting out these new videos when they're not all these mega hits?

Graham Cochrane: Yeah. I guess that it's really cool that you said that, cause that makes total sense that you've got two really, really big ones. First of all, congrats. That's awesome. It took me seven years to reach my first million views, I think, or six years.

It's okay. It took me a long time. Maybe it's the way I view it, like I, I both have a incorrect and a correct view of my content. The incorrect view mathematically is that all of it's valuable, right? Because in a way, it's not true. Like you just said, it's lopsided. There's really only going to be a small percentage that truly drive the business.

So if I'm looking at the analytics, the correct view is. Figure out which video, like if you looked at your two that are over a million views, we can dissect why, what keywords, what topic, you know, what is it about it? And if you're smart, you would try to recreate some content like that. And you can't do it all the time cause you don't want to be unbalanced, I think in your content.

But I think you would strategically right, do more of that. So for me, my two biggest viewed videos have the words home studio in it. They're both about what you need in your home studio. So they're not really tutorials as much as they are gear. And what people need to buy. And I don't like doing videos like that, but that's what people seem to want.

So if I were strategic, I would do more of those. So that would be the correct view of it, is look at the lopsided nature and roll with more of it. But my quote unquote incorrect view is I believe that the constantly pumping out fresh content every week, even if not all of it will stick. You create trust with your audience that you're a fresh resource.

So you're always delivering something every single week that it makes people not want to miss. Cause I haven't gone to channels. If you go to two YouTube channels that have come up in a search for the same topic, and one guy hasn't posted a video in six months, one guy posted one yesterday. You're going to trust the one that posted yesterday instinctually because you just assume that they're more serious cause they're, they're still relevant, still pumping out content.

So that plays a role. And I think, I just naively believe that continuing to pump out content, even if not all of it, will stick, is still good for me longterm. And I also know that I get a lot of views through the hundreds and hundreds of other videos that aren't as big. It just isn't as, isn't the biggest best use of my time. So I think both and work.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I know for me, like it's, it can be easy to be lazy, right? Since I have those two videos working for me, it's like, ah, do I really need to put out a new video this week? You know? But that's, I think that's a really great answer. And a, my top video is called like learn any pop song in five minutes.

And then the second one is called learn piano in four minutes. So what I'm hearing from you is I need to double down on that and maybe do a three minutes video next.

Graham Cochrane: Well, dude, there's something about that, like you can see that the timeframe that you put in the title, learning it and format, and it's are five minutes very appealing to people because they all want to learn those things and they want to learn quickly.

So yeah, I think for sure doing a few more of those or one of those each month or something like that would be huge for you. And also. YouTube is fascinating too. When you look at what content of yours, eight grabs and puts up, you know, high in the search results for better or for worse, like YouTube, like something on your channel and associated with certain keywords.

And so try not to fight those keywords and just make, you know, don't do nothing but those keywords, but make it a part of your rhythm and you'll continue to fill that perpetual cycle that YouTube already got you on.

Jacques Hopkins: So jumping back to where you were 10 years ago, knowing everything you know today, which I am sure is significantly more than back then, would you do anything differently than you did back then?

Graham Cochrane: You know, somebody asked me that recently, and I don't think I would if like a tool like Kajabi existed 10 years ago, I would've jumped on that a lot sooner. But I, I really feel like I learned a lot by creating content. And seeing what stuck. I learned a lot by making some courses that were not so good. I really, what I learned, I saw, I see a lot of guys, and I've seen it for the last five, six years, and it's been around for longer, but I see a lot of people in the online course world that are, all they do is launches.

It's launch, launch. Launch is the launch model. And what's funny is that I didn't know that that was a thing. I knew that when you first launched a course, it was technically a launch because it didn't exist yesterday. Now it exists, but in my mind, I always viewed it as, let's get this thing evergreen. So I didn't even know that evergreen was a thing.

So people like are, do you do evergreen courses or launch model? And I realized, Oh my gosh, I've been doing evergreen model since day one where I launched something, put it in my funnel, and then all the new people would go through it. And it starts to sell automatically for me. And I think not knowing about the launch model early on really was one of the best things for me because I have a.

A business that is very consistent in revenue without me having to do a bunch of launches because the way I've set it up and so I don't think I would've changed it cause if I changed it or learned the quote unquote correct way, a lot of people were doing it back then, I think I would have been as burned out as a lot of these people are.

Even some of the big wigs that I follow are sort of moving away from as many launches as these two cause they're burning out their lists and burning up the teams. And so I feel really grateful for the way I learned. I think it was a sustainable way to learn.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, definitely. Launches are obviously very popular. I personally like to make a consistent income each month rather than just a couple of times a year, so I'm a believer in the evergreen as well. For that reason. Do you mind giving us kind of a high level overview of what your particular funnel looks like.

Graham Cochrane: Yeah. So I'm on the recording revolution side of things. You will say you opt in for one of my lead magnets, you're immediately on the thank you page. You're offered a webinar or an auto webinar. So if you opted in for a, a guide, a PDF guide, I'm now offering you a a one hour class for free. And so if you opt in there for the webinar, you get to watch an hour of exclusive content that's super valuable.

And then there at the end, there is the pitch, but it's a solid hour of teaching, I don't believe in teasing. And then just pitching. That the webinar actually has to be an hour or 45 minutes of great content. So we'll do that. And then at the end of that webinar pitches a bundle of my most popular courses at about like 50 60% off if you buy into it, but it's a $397 bundle right now for courses that probably would've been about a thousand bucks if you bought them individually.

And that's pretty interesting because within an hour and a half of you discovering me on YouTube, you could be being offered something, which is a lot faster than it used to. I've experimented over. A decade of pitching sooner in the relationship in the funnel. And now I pitch as soon as today, if you choose to go to the webinar, which not everybody does, and if you do or don't go to the webinar, you'll go into probably we shortened it just recently, probably about a two week, two week funnel where there's, we kind of 80, 20.

Then we had about a month long funnel that, pitched a lot of my products. Then we kind of looked at it the last year or two and most people were going for a certain offer. So we just shortened the funnel. And it pitches two or three products interspersed with a lot of bonus content over deliver content.

So it feels like a solid two weeks of some of my best stuff, some exclusive stuff, and then getting them to know about some of my products after which, when they're done with that, they get dumped into the regular weekly email where there's the free video every month or every week that I'm sending out.

Jacques Hopkins: Very nice. You mentioned the webinar people can opt into after they opt into the free guide. How do you handle that being evergreen? Like are you saying anywhere that it's live? Are you saying anywhere that it's not live?

Graham Cochrane: No, I say it's a workshop that I previously recorded that you can have access to. So yeah, I don't say that it's alive. I don't try to trick people into thinking that it's live now. It's a recording of when it was a live webinars, so some people get confused, but 95% of the people totally understand. So on the recording revolution side of things, we're still using ever webinar. So we did webinars to deliver that live a few years ago, and then it's ever webinar now and the Graham Cochrane brand, I'm just using Kajabi to do all of that. s that going to have moved everything over to Kajabi?

Jacques Hopkins: Okay. So ever webinar Kajabi, what are some of your other favorite tools?

Graham Cochrane: I mean, Kajabi is gobbling up all the tools that I used to use. So lead pages I used to use. we still are on convert kit for email marketing on the recording revolution side, but I'm moving.

Over to Kajabi on the Graham Cochrane side with like, and getting ready to convert kid, getting rid of my WordPress hosted site, moving all to Kajabi. So that's becoming the biggest tool really, because it allows me to do all the products, landing pages, webinars, email marketing, sales pages, and even now the website. So that's becoming, this is simplifying my life.

Jacques Hopkins: So why don't you jump into, you know, you mentioning the recording revolution side of things, Graham Cochrane side of things. So what is the grand Cochran side of things.

Graham Cochrane: Yeah. So about a year and a half ago, almost two years ago, I officially launched a personal brand to help people learn about how I do online business and how they can do it too.

So through online courses, membership sites, like what you're talking about in your show. I felt like, just like when I started the recording evolution, I had like years and years and years of audio experience, both personal and professionally, that I felt like I should just share. now I felt like I've got.

And now a decade of having an online business that's done really, really well. And I have a lot of friends and family in real life that I'm already helping with their online businesses. I figured why not create a resource, just like I did with the music side of things, but for online business. So it's basically content every week on the YouTube channel and as a podcast as well of how to build an online business, how to grow it, how to integrate it into life.

I'm really . I'm really big on the business and I think you are too shocked from talking about sort of your, your travels. I big on having the business serve my life and be integrated. It all has to fit well together. So I don't just want to make a lot of money or be successful, or I don't want to just have like a life that have no money.

I want, I want them to work together and serve each other well. So I talk about that a lot. And so on the practical side, it's like I said, a YouTube, a video podcast every, every week. So you can either stream it or watch it on YouTube or listen to it. And then I have right now one core online course, which is soup to nuts, top to bottom.

If you have no idea what you could do, how do you build an online course and figure it out and build, assuming a whole online business and then how to grow the thing. And then I just launched a, my membership community, the six figure coaching community two months ago, which is for business owners who are already starting to make a little bit of money online, few hundred bucks, 2000 bucks or more, but really trying to scale that business.

And then I have one on one coaching clients as well. But that's the baby business. It's a couple of years in, but it's been a lot of fun to get that started and to be able to talk about what I'm really passionate about, what this business has set me free and changed my life as I know it has for you.

Jacques Hopkins: So which of the two businesses would you say you work on more day to day?

Graham Cochrane: Definitely the Graham Cochrane side of things. The new one, the recording revolution. I have a little bit of a team now and it's super automated and. Super efficient, so I spend way more time on this new business.

Jacques Hopkins: How did you decide to go with a personal brand rather than a, I don't know what the opposite of personal brand is, but like a name, like, you know, I have the online course sky, right? That's my brand as opposed to Johns hopkins.com how'd you make that decision?

Graham Cochrane: Dude, that was a hard one. I originally wasn't going to make it a personal brand, so I spent, I basically wasted a year trying to figure out a name, and then I was on a call with one of my buddies who was like, bro, like, just call it your name, bro.

Like especially since in some circles there's a little bit of brand equity attached to my name being on. I'd been on a lot of podcasts and been featured in place like business insider and other places and growth lab. And so my name was a little bit associated with . Having an online business and having success. So he just challenged. He's like, bro, just name it yourself. So it was like, okay. So it was lack of good ideas basically, bro.

Jacques Hopkins: So you mentioned, you mentioned the business wanting it to, you know, really serve your family and be integrated and all that. And I know from looking at your site, you spent a month in France with your, with your whole family, and I've done some other things as well. I'm curious your take on like did you work at all and how did you run your businesses from Europe?

Graham Cochrane: So with that trip, I worked two hours a week. I just like checked in basically once a week, but I wasn't, as, you know, it, depending on where you go. I was in the South of France for most of it, and like literally in the middle of nowhere.

So the internet was awful. So after like 2030 minutes, sometimes I'd be like, I can't even do anything. So I would just give up. But mostly it was just, you know, preparing a bunch of content ahead of time, having my team schedule it out. And yeah, I mean, most of it's automated. It's most of it's . People finding content, going through the funnel, getting pitched stuff. So it doesn't really require me to be there day to day.

Jacques Hopkins: Nice. So you work working on the book, the two hour work week now?

Graham Cochrane: Yeah, exactly. It comes out next year.

Jacques Hopkins: How many people are on your team, Graham?

Graham Cochrane: It's Mo, it's three a is for people to, technically, it's two that I owe, two contractors that I employ. One part time. Both are part time, but one of them handles a lot more of the marketing side of things. And he's built out a team to technically two of the other team members that do stuff for me. Aren't my team members directly. They're under his team. So it's all just contractors, but there's probably four key people that are day to day involved with the business outside of me.

Jacques Hopkins: So going a little deeper here, what would you say having successful online courses means to you and your family and your life?

Graham Cochrane: Well. So on the content side of things, success in that means to me that I'm helping people, like the content I'm creating is actually making a difference in somebody's life as opposed to when I worked at desk job, I felt like, what am I doing today that's really making a difference in the world?

So there's that satisfaction of knowing that every video I shoot, every podcast episode I put out. Every course I've ever done or membership site is actually helping people's lives, both in the music space and in their business space, personally on when the money comes home with the money has done for us.

And then the freedom of the business being really minimal effort on my part is a whole different world. I mean, I'd get to take my kids to school, pick them up from school, home for dinner every night. I have three day weekends every weekend. I'm able to travel, like we talked about for extended periods of time if we need to.

And then on the money side of things, it's just like after year three is we started to make some actual good money in my business after like having some fun. And I'm buying a new car and things like that. It really became apparent that this business was going to do far more than I ever thought I would be able to create income wise as a musician, which was what I thought my life was going to be.

So we quickly had to realize what's the point of wealth beyond like your basic needs, enjoyment, a little bit more than basic needs. And it became apparent that like, wow, this is a responsibility that we have. It's like a thump, something important to manage for the good of other people. We could keep it all for ourselves, or we could manage it for the good of others that don't have the ability to create wealth or the opportunities that we had.

So for my wife and I, we're big into supporting a few key charities, one being our church, another being compassion international. And then we have. Sort of the ongoing fund that we call on designated that when we just see a need, we can just write a check and that's really important to us. And then that also ties into like one of the reasons why I want to help people so badly grow their businesses and so that they're making more money than they need so that they can give a lot of it away because it's just a huge privilege to be an entrepreneur and be able to create wealth and then give it to those who can't.

Jacques Hopkins: It sounds like you're doing things the right way. Graham, it's been a pleasure to talk to you here, man. Just a couple more questions for you. You, you teach other people how to succeed in online business. So I know you're going to have a good answer here, and that is the question is about what advice do you have for specifically people wanting to create online course so people have an idea for an online course beginning stages. Just thinking about online courses specifically, what advice do you have for those people to find success.

Graham Cochrane: Yeah, a good online course gets people results, and so the more step-by-step and handholding it is, the better as opposed to a lot of content. Just here's a lot of content. The more you can think about it from the user's perspective, like first do this, then do this.

Now we're going to do this. And answer all the questions along the way. Think of it like, at least this is how I think of it. I think fitness routines and fitness programs are the best way to think about it. You can learn tips online about losing weight or getting in shape, but if you buy a 90 day fitness program.

That tells you like literally every day you just show up and press play. I'll tell you what moves to do, what to eat, when to eat, when to do it. You don't have to think, you just show up and do what I say for 90 days and you can get results. The more your course can be like that, the less people have a chance of failing, the less pressure they feel, and the more they will enjoy the experience and get through the end of it, which will help them get results, which will help them feel like it was a good course. So that's the difference between just content and a good course as the step by step handholding all along the way.

Jacques Hopkins: Got it. That's obviously awesome advice and I completely agree. So to wrap this up, Graham, let us know if there's anything else you want to share and where people can find your stuff and connect with you online.

Graham Cochrane: You can connect with me on social at V grand Cochran at Instagrams where I'm hanging out the most. The grand Cochran show is the podcast on iTunes or wherever, and like I put together, if passive income is new to you, you can check out the passive income workshop. It's all [email protected] and it's about a 45 minute training that basically pulls the curtain back on how I run my business. So those are all some helpful resources that might help people out.

Jacques Hopkins: Thanks Graham. Appreciate it.

Graham Cochrane: Thanks, John.

Jacques Hopkins: All right, thanks so much to Graham and for you out there for listening to today's episode. You can find all of the show notes and links from today's episode by going to the online course, guide.com/one Oh four and guys checkout grams.

Podcast as well. If you've been enjoying this podcast, Graham's has got a great podcast as well. It's called the Graham Cochrane show. Search it up on your favorite podcast platform because there he'll be talking about a lot of great online course stuff. It's, it's more, it's a little more general online business than this podcast, but as we talked about, as you learn in this episode.

Graham knows a lot about online courses. He'd been very successful with online courses and there's a lot of specific online course content there as well. I've been listening myself. It's a really, really good content and guys, if you're not part of the community, you need to join up. There's a free Facebook community for listeners of this podcast for all things, all nine courses.

Check that out by going to the online course, guide.com and clicking on community at the top, or if you're already in Facebook. Then just search up the online course community.

That's going to do it for this episode. We'll have more all nine core show next week.