We’re back with another episode of The Online Course Show! Today I shared an interview with Drew Badger, an online course creator who’s found amazing success online with his English course. He’s got some fantastic insights into how to differentiate your course from others, what takes to build something that really meets students’ needs, and much more. 

I knew that I needed to specialize in something. I needed to be first.

Drew Badger

David and I enjoyed listening to and discussing what Drew shared on this episode!

In This Episode, We Talked About:   

  • (1:39) A launch update from David 
  • (3:31) Some things I’ve been working on recently
  • (5:01) A mistake that I’m currently learning from
  • (7:56) SEO and ads – what’s worked for me, what I’ve moved on from
  • (11:02) Is TrustPilot a good investment?
  • (13:00) How did Drew Badger end up in a small town in Japan?
  • (15:55) Drew’s first product that turned a profit
  • (17:35) The steps that led to making it with his online English course
  • (23:42) Drilling down into what differentiates one course from another
  • (25:44) Drew’s amazing YouTube numbers and how his videos factor into his funnel
  • (33:47) What he would do differently if he was starting over now
  • (36:50) Is it harder to start with or without more input from potential students?
  • (41:41) Top tools Drew relies on
  • (43:47) What has having a successful online course meant for Drew?
  • (45:20) The app that he’s been working on and why he’s so passionate about sharing it with the world
  • (48:16) Wrapping up with today’s guest and where to find Drew online
  • (50:09) How I typically find guests like Drew for this podcast
  • (52:23) Some big takeaways from my chat with Drew
  • (55:04) Thoughts on the Frederick app
  • (55:58) Testimonials and the “why”
  • (58:31) David’s 5-million dollar ad concept
  • (1:03:11) Something I want to do more of in the future
  • (1:04:12) Wrapping up the episode

Whew! That about does it for today – don’t forget to join us for the next episode of The Online Course Guy! And Happy Thanksgiving to those who are listening from the U.S.A.. 🙂

Links

ClickFunnels Trial

Drew’s Website

Drew’s App

Trustpilot

Kajabi

Stripe

PayPal

April Fools Air Guitar Ad

Piano in 21 Days

The Online Course Guy

Transcript

Jacques Hopkins: Today’s episode is brought to you by deadline funnel. I’ve been using deadline funnel for years for my online piano course. Dozens of guests on this podcast have mentioned that they use and love deadline funnel, and if you have an online course business, I recommend you use deadline funnel too.

Evergreen funnels are amazing and nothing makes it easier or better experience for your customers than deadline funnel, and they have set up a special deal just for listeners of the Online Course Show. To learn more about deadline funnel and what that special deal is, head to deadlinefunnel.com/ocg. Again, that’s deadlinefunnel.com/ocg, which is short for Online Course Guy.

Regular people are taking their knowledge and content, packaging it up in an online course and they’re making a living doing it. But not everyone is successful with online courses. There’s a right way and there’s a wrong way, and I’m here to help course creators actually succeed with online courses.

Hi, I’m Jacques Hopkins, and this is the Online Course Show.

And off we go. Welcome aboard. Glad you’re with us. This is the Online Course Show. I’m your host Jacques Hopkins and here with me is our co-host David Krohse.

David Krohse: What’s up, of course, creators!

Jacques Hopkins: And we’re excited to dive. Can’t you tell? David’s excited. I’m excited.

David Krohse: I’m super excited.

Jacques Hopkins: We’re excited. We’re excited to dive into all things online courses with you today. David, welcome to episode 109.

David Krohse: Thank you.

Jacques Hopkins: Man.  You’ve been going through a little bit of a relaunch here recently. Why don’t you update us on how the launch ended up going for you.

David Krohse: Correct. Yep. The launch closed   two days ago and there’s some bad news and some good news. So the bad news, I only got two sales.

 was hoping for maybe 6 to 10 would have been really great. The good news, it was at a 497 price point and so, you know, making a thousand dollars in 6 days and all I did was like basically update the email campaign. That’s still a great return on investment in my world. I guess I did do a little Facebook live as well, also the two guys that joined my course, they look like they’re really set up to have great success. So one guy’s over in Chicago and he has already done TV interviews, so he should be able to get out and do lunch and learns. The other guys up in Edmonton, Canada, and he has like six clinics and so he’s excited to put this in action and it was really cool. He did send me a message and he said, Hey, your funnels look great. He was super impressed. He said, I do a lot of funnel work. And so that was cool. 

So I did get my Superman socks sent out to these two guys this morning. And the other really good news, I look back and I’ve actually only gotten 40 new emails since the last launch. And so that ends up being a 5% conversion for the emails. And I’ve, I’ve kind of been intentional about not trying to reach out to a bunch of people because I do want to, once I get the evergreen webinar in place, and that’s when I figured I’ll really start to push to get more emails than I have a great strategy for that.

Jacques Hopkins: Very nice. And like we’ve been talking about too, if you don’t have any like amazing testimonials yet, you know, you’re still, you’re still in the beginning stages of this stuff and you never know one of those two signups you just got, could be your, your, you know, your star student and just give you this glowing testimonial on that could be just really the catalyst to, to make this thing take off. So I’m excited to see where this goes.

David Krohse: That’s what I felt like with those two guys is they’re, they’re great. 

Jacques Hopkins: Awesome.

David Krohse: What about you? What’s up in your world?

Jacques Hopkins: Man. A few things. I updated my, you mentioned that you know, you’re going to go to an evergreen webinar eventually. I’ve got an evergreen webinar going for my piano course, piano in 21 days.

I’ve also got an evergreen webinar going at the onlinecourseguy.com as well. And I’ve had the same one going for about eight months, and I just updated it. It was long overdue for an update. I just updated it. So I highly encourage really anybody listening to this podcast is going to be a good fit for that training.

Just go to the onlinecourseguy.com and click, you know, basically any call to action throughout the entire website is to that webinar. It’s called a million dollars from a freakin piano course,  just because a lot of times when people would make a lot of money with courses, it’s a moneymaking opportunity.

And so I’m just trying to say, look, a freakin piano course like you, anybody can make money with courses if I was able to make it with a piano course. And so in that training, in that webinar, I show people a lot of things. I go over the details of my top a recommended sales funnels for online courses and there’s other things I show you guys and one of the big cool things is I actually take a second and like just open my browser and show everybody exactly how my piano in 21 days funnel works. And that’s the exact funnel that has done those seven figures. You know, it allowed me to get into the two comma club with a freakin piano course.

So I’m excited about that. That, like I said, was long overdue to get it updated. And so the, the latest and greatest is out there. People can check that out at the onlinecourseguy.com and something that’s interesting came up this past week in like my accounting, and this isn’t as, this isn’t a good news, but it’s something to learn from.

And hopefully people out there listening to this can learn from it too. It’s kind of a kind of a stupid mistake on my side. All right. So I actually got a letter from the IRS here recently, and it was, it was basically a bill from my 2017 taxes. And once I dug into it, I realized the reason is because Stripe, who’s my payment processor, reported to the IRS a higher income than I reported to the IRS from Stripe.

And what I realized is the reason for that is when I was, when I get refunds, I just delete that sale for my accounting. From the revenue side of things. And so that’s why it looked like I made less money from Stripe than they reported. In reality, a refund should be expense, right? So in 2017 Stripe reported that I’m, I’m brought in like $320,000.

And I reported that I brought in like $280,000 or something. You know, these are round numbers, right? And that difference is because every time I get a refund request from a student, I would just delete it. Like it never even happened. Does that make sense? and instead I need to leave that revenue there and count the refund as an expense.

David Krohse: Hmm. I wouldn’t have known that either. 

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. So what? Have you ever gotten a refund request?

David Krohse: No.

Jacques Hopkins: Good job. Keep that up, man. 

David Krohse: Well yeah, you’re going to jinx me.

Jacques Hopkins: Well, yeah. 

David Krohse: Or no. A refund. Oh I thought you were asking, did the IRS ask for more money because they thought I was doing something wrong? Yeah, I’ve gotten a refund. I’ve gotten two refund requests.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. So on the accounting side of things, what do you do with that refund?

David Krohse: Nothing so far. I just like, well, I’m not fully set up with my accounting yet either. I’m more on the Nate camp there. 

Jacques Hopkins: There you go. We got to do it. So for me, like to me the easiest thing to do was just, okay, pretend this sale never happened and just remove it from my books completely.

And apparently that’s not the right way to go. So any, anybody with a course out there listening to this, and you may be thinking, Oh, Jacques, that’s you’re, you’re, you’re stupid. I don’t know why you would ever done that. That’s fine. I just wanted to pass this story on as a lesson learned because going forward, I can tell you I’m going to be counting refunds from my students as expenses and not just removing it from my accounting because that got me into a little bit of trouble with the IRS back in 2017.

David Krohse: Obviously you’re doing well enough to cover that and us, or you don’t actually have to send any more money in.

Jacques Hopkins: No, I’m just going to have to redo that part. You know, my accountant, I’m working with my accountant right now. We’re going to get it straight. It’s, it’s fine. It’s just, it’s more headache than anything. I’m not going to have to owe any more money because the, what I reported was accurate, you know, to an extent, I just, I just did it a little wrong, so I just got to go back and fix it and all is going to be all it’s going to be okay. 

David Krohse: Well, speaking of revisiting topics from the past, I mentioned to you, I was kinda curious, where are you at with like in the early episodes? I mean, you were spending. 3000 or 4000 dollars a month on SEO. You have tried Facebook ads, you’ve tried Trustpilot. Where are you at with these things that in the past you were trying to throw money at and get to return on investment?

Jacques Hopkins: Well, I’ll take one thing at a time. I can tell you, as far as SEO goes, I’m proud to say, you know, if anybody out there wants to, you can Google how to play piano. You can Google learn piano, you can Google learn piano fast, you can Google how to learn piano. Those are some of the biggest keyword terms in my, in my niche, and I’m number one for all of them, number one for all of them.

David Krohse: Wow.

Jacques Hopkins: So yeah, I’ve had my SEO guy on the show a while back and it’s, it’s taken a while. It’s taken awhile and like you alluded to, I was paying like thirty two hundred dollars a month at first to him. And it took a while to get results. And at this point, he’s still same guy still working for me. And it’s really, we, we’ve come to a nice little incentivized model.

So we are able, with Google analytics to tell exactly, what sales come from Google organic search results and not even just Google, including Bing and Yahoo, just organic search results in general, and he gets a percentage of those sales. And so if, if I don’t make a lot of money from SEO, I don’t have to spend a lot on it, but it also incentivizes him to, Hey, let’s, let’s keep growing this thing.

Let’s keep doing better and better, find more long tail search terms. And so I’m not paying that 30. You know, 3000 plus price tag anymore. But, you know, hopefully one day I am hopefully one day. It does get. That high that, you know, the percentage of sales does get that high. So I’m, I’m proud to say that we, we finally got some really good results, but I will tell you that it doesn’t seem like overall the quality of the traffic coming from SEO is as high as some other sources like YouTube for example. And, and I kinda get that so that’s the update on SEO. What else was there?

David Krohse: I mentioned just trying to make Facebook ads work for a piano in 21 days or online course guy.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. Facebook ads, I’m not running any right now. I did some for a while here and there, but you know, if I’m not getting a an ROI significantly over a one, you know, ideally two or above, then I don’t know that it’s really worth it.

And I’ve never really been good with ads myself. And so if you, if you have to outsource it, well then you have to figure out, you have to account for that contractor or that agency’s fee in your. In your return on investment. And that makes it even harder to an extent. So I am doing Google ads and being ads still been doing those for years, and I have somebody that does those for me, and we consistently get between a one and a two ROI.

Right? There’s  R O A S was, which is return on ad spend, but then if you factor in her fee, that’s overall ROI. So as long as that stays above one and ideally above two, then then we’re good. But I haven’t had too much success with Facebook ads, but maybe, maybe you just haven’t had the right person working on it. I’m not sure. But currently not doing Facebook ads. 

David Krohse: Gotcha. Trustpilot. Good investment?

Jacques Hopkins: Trustpilot. Yeah, I think so. It’s not, it’s not cheap. I pay $300 a month for Trustpilot, but I just love being able to point people to third party reviews, right? So I always tell people, if you go to pianoin21days.com/testimonials. Those are, those are great, but they’re biased reviews. Like if somebody sends me a video of them saying, this is the worst course ever, I don’t recommend it to anybody. I’m not gonna put that on my website. But if you want unbiased reviews, there’s this site, trustpilot.com where basically everybody that ever buys my course will get an email a month after signing up saying, Hey, go review the course.

So that’s not just for people that have given me positive feedback about it via email or anything like that. Anybody that signs up. Gets that invitation to go review. And I think, I think my rating is like 9.2 out of 10 or something, and I do there, there are a couple of one star reviews now. I’m biased, but I don’t think they’re justified.

And I’ve tried to reach out to those people to see what I can do. But some people just, some people are hard to please, but overall it’s great and I’m constantly pointing people to Trustpilot throughout my funnel, throughout my marketing, because I think people like to see unbiased reviews.

And I want to say I’ve got over like 400 of those in total. They’re on Trustpilot. But that’s not something I recommend people start out with. ‘Cause $300 a month is, is that’s expensive. 

David Krohse: Gotcha. 

Jacques Hopkins: And, and the other thing that Trustpilot does is allows you to have the stars in your Google search results too.

Was there anything else that you were curious about in terms of wanting an update? 

David Krohse: No, I don’t think so. 

Jacques Hopkins: Cool, man. Well, look, I brought on Drew Badger for this episode at englishanyone.com. It was a very, very interesting conversation was it was a pleasure to get to know him a little bit.

So why don’t we go ahead and play that interview for the audience and then me and you, David, we’ll jump back on the backside and discuss it a little bit so that sound good?

David Krohse: Sounds great. 

Jacques Hopkins: Let’s get into the full interview with Drew Badger right now.

Hey there, Drew. Welcome to the online course show.

Drew Badger: Oh, nice to see you there, Jacques. And it’s a pleasure to be here. Hello, to everybody listening out there.

Jacques Hopkins: I’ve got so many questions for you, Drew. I’ve, I’ve been so impressed by, by just looking around at your presence online. I don’t know whether we should start with the, the nearly 1 million YouTube subscribers or just the incredible amount of traffic you get to englishanyone.com or even, you know, 350,000 people on your email list. All really impressive. But I think I want to start like this. How did you end up in the small town in Japan?

Drew Badger: Well, long story short, I wanted to come to Japan to learn Japanese gardening. So I was interested in that. Like maybe you remember, you’re, you’re old enough, you know, like the original karate kid movie when it came out back in the day. And so I saw that and I remember like, I didn’t want to be the karate kid. I wanted to be Mr. Miyagi. I don’t, I just like, I was like, man, that dude is just so cool.

Like, he’s like, you know, got his stuff together. And he’s like, just a really nice guy. And sitting there doing bonsai and just looking at his garden, especially. So they take you to his house and he’s learning all this stuff. And Daniel’s there like, Oh man, look at this. And so I was interested from that. There’s a, I’m from Chicago actually and behind the museum of science and industry, there’s a Japanese garden there as well. So I went there on a school trip and we were supposed to do some kind of art project or something, but I just sat there enjoying it for the whole time.

So I was just really inspired and wanted to go check that out. So I came to Japan not able to do that because I couldn’t get a visa, but I was able to get a visa to teach. So I did the jet program and maybe you know somebody or have heard of other people who have done that, but it’s the largest  exchange and teaching program where people from English speaking countries come to Japan to teach in elementary schools, junior high schools, things like that. So I gotta be, so to do that and on the side, I found a gardening teacher while I was out there. So I was able to do that on the side and still have gardens actually in Japan that I created when I first got out here.

And I worked at a traditional Japanese Inn for about a year. So I was kind of, that’s kind of like another thing in the future. I want to open these Japanese hotels in other countries in the future. That’s kind of different from what I’m doing right now. But I enjoyed teaching so much while I was doing that and I really was able to help people in the classroom.

And so when I was thinking about what’s a way I can continue to do gardening, I was thinking about that as a way to teach. ‘Cause I actually created a book for Japanese kids, which you probably don’t know about. It’s on Amazon but it’s a mnemonic picture book for Japanese kids.

So I did that. I was kind of my first like entrepreneurial thing. Outside of that, just figuring out a way I could, you know, make some kind of money so I could. Do the gardening thing but I had my then girlfriend that I had met in Nagasaki, I was doing a long distance thing she came up to Kyoto with me and she’s from Nagasaki. So when we got married, we came back here and that’s why I’m in this small town. 

Jacques Hopkins: So you started because you were, you were teaching English over in Japan, and you start putting these videos on YouTube. What, when, when did the first dollar come in? What was the first product that you had that made money?

Drew Badger: The first thing I created was actually a mindset program called the insight. And that was just something simple I think we had actually some, some stuff for teachers. Like I was working with another guy at the time, and he was a good artist. I’d still is actually, but he, he had some like really interesting pictures of people’s, I was thinking like, Oh, these could be some really interesting flashcards.

So as opposed to just like happy and sad, we had stuff like mesmerized and traumatized and was like, other like just kind of weird words like that, which you can still find on the YouTube channel. But when I was thinking about what’s the best way to create something for people and start making money, especially looking at what other people were doing, it seemed like a lot of people had access to all this knowledge, but they had a lot of mindset issues, especially with just and, and a lot of this, and I always tell people like, it’s not your fault that you learned this way because everybody learns this way. And then because they learn this way, they develop all these problems with communication, and then that leads them to having all these negative ideas about language learning being difficult or taking a long time, all these kinds of things and you might have something similar like related to teaching piano but I was trying to reverse all that. And instead of just offering a course at first, it was just about a simple mindset idea. And so that’s the first thing I did where it’s like, Oh look, I can put something online and strangers will pay me money for it.

Jacques Hopkins: And you’ve obviously come a long way since then. In the those early days, what, what point? Like what are the, what are the steps you took? What are the things that occurred over the sequence that made it to the point where you felt like it was a, it was a viable business, like where you were you got to a point, you’re like, I’ve made it with englishanyone.com?

Drew Badger: I don’t recommend people do is what I did and this is, I quit that job and I moved back to Nagasaki where I didn’t have a job and I was just like, all right, like it’s like sink or swim time. I’ve got to figure out how to make this work.

And so I just, I spent a lot of time just learning about sales and marketing and copywriting and the other things, ’cause I already knew a lot about teaching and what you’ll find, especially even developing courses or selling any kind of product, is that the, the best product doesn’t always win. In fact, it usually doesn’t.

And so it’s the person who is able to sell it well, and obviously you should have a good product at the same time, but I mean, you just, a lot of people say, Hey, that, you know, that other person has this product and it’s crap. And you know, it’s not really helping people very well, but so many people are buying it and so kind of adding that as a thing to learn while you’re doing that. So I’m spending time kind of developing things, learning more lessons than just talking to, talking to the people. I’m, I’m trying to help and I start this a, I call it the pain document, and this is where I’m just getting emails, starting to develop a list from people.

And it’s now, I don’t know, like 250 some odd pages long or whatever. But these are just like complaints that I get from people about their learning or the things that they struggle with and so this goes back into not only the copywriting, but also what I actually produce for courses.

So when people think about teaching English, the typical things that work in a classroom are actually what help you learn. So I don’t want to do that. I want to take a look at the specific problems people had, and the better I got at doing that, the better I became at producing courses that people were willing to pay for, so I can try something on YouTube, see what people like, and I’ve got lots of social proof as well as great comments and feedback, whether people liked videos or don’t whether people are even like opting in from whatever those videos are not. So you can see like, okay, this video was clearly more inspiring, or it’s helping more people or whatever, just by looking at the comments of it. And even if you’re just starting out at something like that. You can look at somebody else in a particular space and see what they’re doing and look at which videos are more popular or whatever, if you’re kind of analyzing YouTube, something like that.

But as I was looking at that and noticing there were also other people, they were teaching English. I knew that I needed to specialize in something. I needed to be first in the mind so if you’ve read 22 immutable laws of marketing is just like a standard idea from that.

But I think that really, that really hit me when I was thinking about when people are looking for somebody to learn online with, like, they’re looking for. Like the first or the number one in a particular thing. So whenever your thing happens to be and most people, whether they are actually producing a business or not are essentially generalists.

And so they’re looking for like, let me just help you learn English. And the example I gave to other people when I talk just on the ground here with other people about what I do. I say, if I, if I walk up to just a random Japanese person and I say, Hey, I’m an English teacher and I’d like to help you learn when you’re using the term English teacher with a person out here, you’re essentially letting them dictate what that means to them, how much they’d be willing to pay for something like that, because they already have these associations in their mind about what an English teacher is.

And for my point of view, I looked at that and I was like. Even if you said you were like the number one English teacher or whatever, it was like, I don’t even want to be an English teacher and I want to position against the whole idea of traditional learning and the way people are learning that way because it doesn’t work.

So when people are like, well, I’ve got a master’s in teaching or whatever, it’s like, all right, well look at your students. Can they speak? And so looking at those kinds of examples of how people are learning things or how they’re teaching or whatever I thought about what’s a better way I can do that? What are, what are the things I can focus on? And so I decided I’m going to focus on conversational fluency. So the thing that people were actually interested in, which is how can I speak. And thinking about what’s the best way to do that? I need to position myself and make what I do a lot more clear and so I created essentially the idea of kind of kind of doing what I’m already doing, but to create a name for it, which was a call myself an English fluency guide. And with that simple change in what I did, I tripled my business. First, like I got some pushback from people, like when I’m starting to use that in videos or whatever, I don’t really anymore.

But when, when I was first doing it, I was like, hi, I’m drew batch with the world’s number one English fluency guide, and in this lesson we’re going to do X, Y, and Z, or whatever. And so you, you use it. And like the interesting thing about doing that is that people can’t argue against it, but they will complain because they’re like, what qualifies you to do X, Y, and Z? Or how are you like the first thing in this? And so when I go back and I actually spent some time going through comments and replying to people, saying like, here’s, here’s what people are doing and here’s how I’m doing something different. I’m the first person to create this idea. And I just like defended it with confidence and saying like, if you want to actually get fluent, you can learn with me. Or you can keep learning things the traditional way if you want to do that but I haven’t had anyone sweat me about credentials in, I dunno, years or whatever. Even, even if you are the only person who does something that still makes you number one in that thing. So whatever that thing happens to be that, that, that’s like that kind of turning point of taking essentially a marketing idea and using that for like how you help people learn.

And I actually took that same idea and applied it to a memory course that I created, which is like been really successful. And people have like learn to think about memorizing things in a new way by applying that same idea.

Jacques Hopkins: Well Drew, there’s a ton of amazing stuff to unpack there. 

Drew Badger: Let me know if I’m talking too much.

Jacques Hopkins: No, no, no. Let me jump in here and let’s, I’ve been taking notes and that like, there’s so much good stuff here and I can really resonate with, with what you were saying about how it’s not good to tell people that you’re just an English teacher. Right. And I, in the same way, I don’t like to tell people I’m just a piano teacher like, come to me if you want to learn piano or you want to take piano lessons. Right. Those are very generic terms and not something that I could say I’m the number one piano teacher in the world. But like you  ask yourself the question, it’s like, okay, what, what am I, what am I good at and what do people really need the most help with? And that’s how you came up with calling yourself the number one English fluency guide. 

Drew Badger: You don’t want to just like gimmick-a-fy it or whatever, but the point is you’re really thinking about what can you be first in such that when people are looking for something in the same way, like if you think about a, what are you searching for online? Like I need to find something online. Where do you like, what website would you use for that? If you need to search for something.

Jacques Hopkins: I want to say it’s called Google. 

Drew Badger: Yeah. Now that’s the correct answer in the sense that most people would be thinking about that and maybe use duck, duck, go, or whatever it happens to be but in general, like Google, Google was not first. For creating search. I mean, Yahoo was created before Google, but if you look at, look at like just side by side, Google versus Yahoo, you look at those pages. Yahoo is cluttered with all kinds of stuff. It’s got weather and car prices and news and all this other stuff.

Google is just boom, like Google has all these things working in the background, but their homepage is just like simply, it’s just a search bar. You know, whatever, two buttons or something below that. So it’s not, it’s not even that you need to be the first to create something, but it’s more about being the first in the minds of people when you were thinking about an idea.

So now I could go back to people and I talked to them like, I mean, I don’t do private lessons anymore, but if people asking me, Hey, can you teach me like I need an English teacher to do something? I’m like, Oh, you should look for an English teacher. I don’t do that. And they’re like, Oh, what do you mean you don’t do that?

And I’m like, Oh, like I’m an English fluency guide. I don’t, I don’t. Just teach people English in there and they’re already like, Oh, like, like what does that mean? And they begin like asking about the story and trying to figure out how that works. 

Jacques Hopkins: So let’s talk about YouTube a little bit because I think that’s going to be an area that, that a lot of people listening to this are going to be curious about because you have, like I said, when we opened up nearly a million subscribers, you’ve talked about this video that has nearly 18 million views. Is that correct? That’s, that’s amazing. Like, I’ve, I’ve, I basically built my business piano in 21 days on this one video that’s got about a million views, right? 

Drew Badger: That’s great! That’s awesome.

Jacques Hopkins: 18 times that. So, but you’ve got more, you’ve got tons of videos over a million views. It’s not just that one. I think YouTube is really, really important and very popular for course creators because a lot of times the audience, for a course is going to first look for that solution on a YouTube, like go to YouTube, type in how to play piano, go to YouTube and type in how to become fluent in English. Right. As somebody with so much success on YouTube, what do you recommend to people just getting started or struggling to figure out the whole YouTube thing?

Drew Badger: Well I think number one, looking at what other people are doing and you’re, you’re kind of looking for the holes in, in their marketing or the holes in the marketplace.

So in, in my case, I was seeing a lot of English lessons, but it’s essentially no different than video versions of what you would get in a classroom. And that’s not helping you speak. So the hole, there is actual conversational fluency. How can I produce a lesson that’s going to help people become much more confident speakers?

And so you’re, you’re looking for that, like that Venn diagram of the, the hole in the market. It’s not being met by, you know, whatever people are doing for your thing. And then you’ve got the kind of, the other circle of that and the overlapping part , which is the kind of niche or whatever that you would get into solving that thing.

So as an example, like even right now, like there are lots of people creating new YouTube channels for teaching English, but they, they know basically nothing about like sales and marketing or whatever. So they’re just getting in and just like either copying what other people are doing, and that’s, it’s just really not going to be very successful for you because that’s only promoting the people you’re copying.

And you might get like. Some of that, but again, like creating a category for something like the idea of an English fluency guide, when other people use that terminology, that’s like, if you type in English fluency guide in YouTube, like I’m going to come up. And so there’s no reason to like make that thing which you should be doing is like, Hey, I’m the, I’m like the grammar, like the grammar, whatever the grammar God, there you go.

I, if I were starting it starting like a new YouTube channel right now, it’d be the grammar God or pick, you know, whatever that thing is because nobody has the courage to specialize. So everybody’s talking about fluency now as opposed to just like learning languages or whatever but like the few people who are successful are like, you can clearly see like, Oh, this is the person who does X. Like if you’re looking for pronunciation, you go to this person. If you’re looking for whatever, you go to that person. So the person who is creating a specific niche that’s actually supplying a solution for a problem in the market or even if it’s a problem that’s already being solved by other people, if you can kind of get in front of other people by creating a more specific niche. That’s what’s going to create more success for you. 

Jacques Hopkins: Okay. And then, and then just beyond that, what about coming up with new ideas for videos and how often to post and, and just, you know, making sure you have the right thumbnail and descriptions and all that.

Drew Badger: Even if you know exactly what you want to do and it’s the perfect thing and you think it’s going to be awesome, you should make it at least seem like the market has input into what you’re doing. So if they’re seeming like they’re kind of building it with you, and this means they’re a, like if you’re saying, Hey, like what kind of problems are you having? And they say, Oh, I’m having this problem. And even if you knew that already, even if you’ve already worked that in, you’re still talking with people about, like I heard from a whole bunch of people that like, you have this problem, and I’ve worked that into the course. So people like, Ooh, like I’ve, you know, in some way contributed to this, and they’ve already taken ownership before they’ve even paid for it so that’s kind of like one problem about that.

So what I do now like thinking about. Like if as a, as thinking about giving advice to people who were just getting started in business, really the last thing you want to do is think about like creating something or what is like your thumbnail or something like that. You really just need to find a market and figure out what the problems are for that market.

And now other than the new app that we’re developing, and we can talk about that if you’re interested, but for anything I do online, I don’t build anything until I sell it first. So I’m not like worrying about if I were, again, like starting everything from scratch. I’m not thinking about a business name. I’m not thinking about like my website. Setting all that up. I’m not thinking about like incorporation and all this other stuff. And like, again, all the like little things that most people think about. I’m thinking about what’s a problem people have and can I design a solution with them that I can presale them on and actually get money for the creation of that thing before I even build that thing.

And then I usually just sell it to them at a discount at that point because they helped me build it. And then you take the you know, the success stories that you get from that, you’ve got testimonials and you can begin developing something from there. So it’s essentially the risk free, you know, essentially time free, a way of developing a business as well, because you’re only taking the next step when you see that you’ve got positive feedback that’s saying, Hey, like we need this thing. Like it’s really a problem for me so the thing before I would worry about even YouTube or whatever is, is connect with the market. And this could even mean that you create a YouTube channel and you just go talk with the people in the comment section of other videos that are, people are doing that already.

And so you can, you can create something like, it’s not even like a legit channel. You don’t have to produce any videos for it at all, but you’re using that as a way to communicate with people in the market in the same way that you would go to a forum on a different website about you know how to do whatever.

The next thing I would, I would kind of like dovetail into this is that when people get the idea for what the problems are, the real goal of an entrepreneur is not to not to even be the one solving the problem. It’s just to figure out what the problem is and then find a solution that maybe somebody else even creates.

So I know a lot of people that are just getting into something like they could essentially do exactly what you’re doing, but on a niche scale and they just say, Hey, I, I, I notice a lot of people have X problem. And so what I did was like, I went and spoke with a couple of experts in the industry that know all about that and it solved that problem.

And if you’re interested in learning that too, I have this really simple audio course that teaches you how to do that. So you don’t even have to be the person, like creating the content or whatever. It’s just you figuring out what’s the best way to connect the painful problem with a really great solution. And you might not even be the one to do that. So like for people listening out there and you’re like, okay, I want to get on YouTube or whatever. Just think about the people you want to help and don’t worry about like what’s a thumbnail and all that stuff. Like all that stuff comes later. So if you actually go to our website, you can look at a, just a simple quiz that we have where it’s like, Hey, would you like to get fluent like two, three, or even 10 times faster?

And the way we’re able to claim something like that, is it because most people they’re essentially continuing to improve the things they’re already good at. And so if you look at like, and this is again another like marketing idea I developed and, but it’s true of the, the seven English fluency habits.

So I literally took the idea of like, the, like seven success habits and it’s like, well, you need to actually do the same thing when you’re learning English. And so what people are usually doing is they, if you could kind of plot it as a graph, you might be really strong in vocabulary, but you’re really low on confidence.

And if you have that problem. Then it makes a lot more sense to focus on confidence than to focus on just learning more words. And once you understand that we can provide information for each one of these different things and things get a little bit more, I guess, in detail or you know, specific or whatever as you’re going through that. But at least at the beginning, all you’re really doing is figuring out what problems people have and then supplying just a really simple solution for that. 

Jacques Hopkins: If you were to go back to that time when you were first getting started with online business and know everything that you know now, what would you have done differently the second time around?

Drew Badger: Essentially the most painful problems that people have and you were trying to figure out why those are painful for them and what those problems are stopping them from doing. And this is just kind of a typical thing in sales. And again, another thing that I’ve learned over doing it when you’re, when you’re talking to people, a lot of people, number one, like they don’t, they understand their problems pretty well.

Like they understand that they’re, they’re blocked from moving in some direction because of something they’ll, they might not know how it happened or what the solution is. So they’re really just looking. That’s kind of the ideal thing. First is just connecting with the person by showing that you understand what their problem is.

So you say, okay, I’m running an ice cream parlor and I’ve got like the world’s best ice cream or whatever, but customers just aren’t coming in. So I say, okay, you have like a customer acquisition problem now as a result of that, like how is that making you feel? What are the problems that are causing your business as a result of that?

And so you kind of like get into the story a bit more of just like you begin with the kind of factual, I’ve got like a customer acquisition problem, and pretty much every business does. That’s why you see everybody teaching courses about like, you know, how to sell Facebook ads or whatever, you know, things like that because it’s like the hardest thing to do in business is get a customer. So. Yeah. For that specific problem I’m talking with you. Not just like, okay, like here’s a course that’s going to help you do that. And like, I could do that, but it’s not really like getting to the heart of what the problem is in what’s really motivating you to solve that.

So I would just talk with you a little bit more. What’s motivating you to do this? And as a result of this problem, what are you stopped from doing? How much money is this costing you? That kind of thing. And from there you develop like what are the specific things they need to know in order to do that? Even if you personally don’t know how to do that. And I can’t stress this point enough because people, when they think about starting something, they really think they have to be the one providing the solution. So if there’s like one big takeaway, especially for new entrepreneurs listening to this, it’s, you don’t have to be the one providing the solution. All you have to do is be the person listening.

And that’s, it’s like the one thing that nobody does. So you, you come to people and you say like, I’m here, like I’m just here to listen to you. Like, tell me about your work, or whatever it is. It’s struggling. And people will tell you for hours, like, Oh man, I got to deal with this stuff over here. And like, this customer is crazy. And like there’s this other thing I have to do. And you look for the things that are really painful, but as you get a bit more strategic with it, you can begin to think like, okay, is this something that might require software? Which again, like, I’m not building my own app. I don’t know anything about building an app. I got some people to help me build a solution, so I’m doing that exact same thing even now because I know like a little bit of HTML and CSS, but nothing about like coding an app or something like that. But I do know how to solve a problem, and I know how to get people in the right places that can help them do that. So you’re looking for people in that same way, and that that’s the thing I would look for, for new entrepreneurs. 

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah Drew. I think this is great advice. And I think the biggest, the biggest problem, the biggest reason people don’t do this is because it’s hard. It’s a harder path. It’s a harder way to go about it. It’s not, it’s not a straight forward. So for example, if I’m just getting started online business, and I want to put together a guitar course, right? There’s a lot of guitar courses out there. I know how to play guitar, so I’m just gonna put a curriculum together on how I think the best way to play guitar is. But how much better of a way is it to go talk to 25-50 people who either want to learn to play guitar, have always wanted to learn to play guitar, or are struggling to learn to play guitar? How much better of a course could you possibly put together if you go about it your way? I think a lot better.

Drew Badger: I don’t think that’s even a question. Even if, again, I mentioned before about you building something, even if you think you know exactly what people need, and that’s correct. You’re building it with them as opposed to like, let me, let me like sit in my garage and design this course, or I’m in my bedroom or whatever, and you’re taking all this time to do this stuff, and then when you release it, it’s like you have, you’ve got nothing to release it to, so you’re having to develop like a whole new set of skills as soon as you finish the like, okay, here’s the course thing, and you might even have to spend time like learning how to build a course when the interesting thing is that all the solutions are revealed as you go through the process of speaking with people about whatever that thing is. So the, the idea for whatever the modules or lessons in the course is come from the problems that people have. So, as an example, when people are learning through my system for developing fluency, I noticed that people are, not only do they not know the conversational English that people really use in actual speaking , they don’t have a way to learn it such that they develop the habit of using it automatically. So what I do is not only teach them conversational English, I’ve created a simple series of steps that help them learn that information in different ways and in small steps, small pieces, so that once you, when you put the whole thing together, it becomes just a really great solution.

So people understand exactly, Oh, I’ve learned this conversational English. I know the vocabulary, the grammar, and all these things. But I’ve done it in such a way that I’ve done it in simple steps rather than what people kind of do is they’d like try to watch a movie or something like that, and it’s essentially trying to jump from one level to like the native level of conversational speech, which is really impossible.

Like if you studied some French or you know Italian or whatever in school, and you try to watch a French movie, you’re like, what the hell is going on? I don’t understand any of this stuff. But if you learned a lot of those pieces of the grammar and vocabulary first, then once you get there, it’s a lot more comfortable and easy for you to understand.

And so you get really excited about that and it’s like, wow, it’s actually not difficult. So I would even caution like you right now, like telling people it’s difficult when like the, I would honestly say the opposite is true. Starting a business is much easier. Certainly now with the tools we have, but it’s always been easier if you think about it like the way I’m describing it here so.

Like the kind of like quote unquote difficult thing about starting a business. A lot of that is really just mindset stuff where you’re nervous about approaching people or you’re nervous about selling or other things like that. But a lot of that stuff just basically evaporates when you just go to people in like, you could even talk to a friend of yours.

So maybe you know a guy who wants to learn the guitar and you know how to play the guitar and so you’re talking with him. Or her and you say, Hey, why are you interested in learning how to play the guitar? And they’re like, Oh, I’d love to be able to go to a party and like, you know, pick up a guitar and even play just like one song and it’s like boom. And kind of a mistake that people make when they go through that is they try to give people like, okay, so like, how do you think like the solution for that should be. And there’s kind of a story about Ford going to ask people and if he said like if I were to ask people like what they wanted, like do they want a car or whatever like most people just say they want a faster horse. And so, and whether he said that or not, like it’s a typical thing that people do. In business where they’re kind of expecting people to have a solution to their problem. When if that were true, they wouldn’t be having the problem, or maybe they’re just really lazy and didn’t do it or whatever.

But for the most part, people don’t know exactly what they need to be doing. And so you need to tell them after listening to what their frustration is, Oh, here’s the actual solution to that thing. And so that’s your job as really just to become good at solving problems. And that’s really all an entrepreneur does. Entrepreneurship is not difficult. If you think about just listening to people and listening to people, like if you just focus on that, it’s like the most important thing. You’ll learn exactly what people are struggling with. And you’ll get to see it from an outside perspective that they don’t have.

So for me, like I actually struggled with learning second languages myself. So this was personally interesting to me, and I’m continuing to do it now because like I just think it’s a fascinating problem of how do we help people learn languages, but within that language as opposed to the way everybody else does it. So.

Jacques Hopkins: Sure. Let’s shift gears a little bit now. I’ve only got a couple more questions left for you. And one thing I wanted to ask you as a successful course creator, give us some of your top like tools, software tools that you’re using.

Drew Badger:  Well I think what we use, let’s see. So we use click funnels.

Jacques Hopkins: For what? What do you use click funnels for?

Drew Badger: We use click funnels for landing pages, sales pages, some pages actually on our website. We use it for that and I mean, what initially, what attracted us to that was  we’ve got bumps on there. So these are where you can add like an additional course or something like that. So you’re, you’re sending people to a checkout page and they can pay the thing that they’re looking for. And then there’s an additional offer there for whatever. So you can have more of it. Or here’s an additional course you might want to add to that. And then you can do upsells as well. So after they see a specific offer, they get something else. 

It’s been like, honestly, it’s been, it’s been a little bit like screwy with us lately, and I think it might be because we’re like doing different things. But click funnels in general has been like helpful for what we’ve done. I don’t think it’s an ideal system. Like I want to really put everything back on our own website but aside from that we use Kajabi.

Jacques Hopkins: Real quick. Okay. I was going to ask if you hosted your course in click funnels… 

Drew Badger: We use Kajabi for that as well. We have a merchant account and we also use Stripe and then PayPal. But again, like this, this is  a similar question about like YouTube where like, okay, what, what about your thumbnail and what about all this other stuff? It’s like once you have a program, literally make a PayPal button and email it to somebody and to say like. If you want this thing, here’s the way to get it.

So never ask people would they be willing to pay for something, give them a button to pay for it. And if they’re like, actually, you know, make them put their, you know, their mouths where their money is or whatever. But I wouldn’t even, you know, again, like if, if this is a little bit geared more towards newer people who are thinking about that, like all that stuff becomes easy once you have something that people are interested in paying for. So do that first. There’s no risk. It doesn’t cost you anything to talk to people and figure out what they’re needing help with. And then either you provide the solution or you collect other people who were able to provide the solution for that.

Jacques Hopkins: What has had having a successful online course, does that mean for you? 

Drew Badger: Well, it means freedom. It means spending more time with my family. It means just more time to, to think about things or read, or do, you know, hobbies or whatever. I have a son in the small town I live in. There’s not really, you know, so much nightlife or whatever, things that go out and do, but I have a nice, you know, I’m living, you know, pretty, pretty near the ocean, so I can ride my bike around this nice mountain path right on the side of the water and just like if I want to, if I want to go do something, like I’m going to I just feel like I want to watch a movie on you know, two o’clock on a Tuesday or something, I can go do it. So I don’t have to worry about like, man, I like the boss is breathing down my neck or whatever. I got to get this report done or something. It’s just like I, I control my own time and sometimes like sometimes you’re working, I’m not going to lie you know, you’re, it’s, it’s not like you’re just like sitting on a beach or whatever. But again, the, the reason I started doing this, not only so I could, you know, go do gardening or other things like that is because I enjoy what I do, but I wanted to get like the maximum I could out of it.

And that meant leverage. So I’m not interested so much in just like, again, sitting on a beach or something like that. It’s more about how can I take something I enjoy, but help it up. Just way more people with that. And so what I want to do with the app is help a billion people learn, you know, to like be able to read and speak and do all these other things and it’s possible with just the technology that’s available now, the distribution systems that people have. And it’s not that difficult. 

Jacques Hopkins: So the app. You’ve been working on this lately. It’s an interesting concept for those curious about it and tell us, tell us a little more about it. Who, what, what is it and who’s it for? 

Drew Badger: All right. It’s actually, and I hate to say this is for everyone. I hate to say that because this is like the last thing you want to do. I’d just spent, you know, however much time we’d been talking about specificity and making sure you focus on things, I’ll, I’ll kind of explain how we’re doing that, but essentially the idea of the app is it’s the world’s first ever system where you can learn English through English itself without having to use your native language. And the main benefit of this is that not only is it more fun to learn, you understand things, it’s kind of like a puzzle as you’re learning, rather than getting a whole bunch of things that you have to memorize. But it stops you from developing all the bad habits of having to think and translating your head that cause you like a lot of headaches down the road.

I initially made it as something for my learners. So we’ve got, you know, hundreds of thousands of adult learners and many more on YouTube and these are people that really need a way to, to test kind of different parts about English pronunciation and the way what the rules are because when you learn the traditional way, you just think. The rules for English pronunciation are, are crazy. And so if people have a lot of trouble with that and they haven’t gone through just a very simple way of understanding what those rules are. But this is exactly what we teach native English speaking kids about in school when we teach them phonics and sight words and other things like that.

So it’s a combination of a system to teach reading, not only for native speakers, but for also learning spelling and pronunciation for adults. So if you’re a non native speaker. You can download this thing and test the different letter combinations like C A T for cat versus B A T for bat, and you can hear how the slight differences, because you can compare these two different things and see how they’re different.

Your mind understands these things much more easily than trying to study them in isolation. Or to have to wait for a teacher to be there to help you do something. So it’s literally the world’s fastest way to learn how to read if you’re a native speaker, because you don’t have to wait for anyone to teach you.

And there’s no system or anything. There are no instructions in the app at all. It’s all just like one big game, one big puzzle. So you could give it to . I mean, my daughter started playing with it when she was one and a half. And it’s all you need to do is just be able to scroll a wheel on you know, on the screen or tap an icon or something like that, to literally teach yourself how to read and to go from even simple things like the alphabet up to more difficult words like synthesis or apocalypse or things like that. So it’s all like, we’re, we’re building that out right now in the app and it will be released very soon. Like, I don’t know when exactly this podcast will be coming out, but it’s called Frederick and we named it such after Frederick Douglas because he taught himself to read. 

Jacques Hopkins: That is perfect. I’m excited to check that out. As someone with two young kids who aren’t reading yet. It’s very intriguing. I’d love to, I’d love to check it out, Drew. So look, thanks so much for joining me, man. This has just been a lot of great knowledge about online courses and loved hearing about your story but just to wrap things up, let us know if there’s anything else you want to share with us and once again, where everybody can find and connect with you online.

Drew Badger: Sure. Well, if they’re interested in learning more about what I do, you can just go to English Anyone that’s englishanyone.com or you can search for that on YouTube and you can see what I do. Honestly, I’m not really doing anything fancy with videos. There are many videos where I’m just sitting in front of the camera, kind of like this, or standing in front of the camera and just talking about stuff.

I’m trying to dissolve any worries that people might have, especially for thinking about YouTube as a solution, whatever they want to produce that it’s difficult or you have to do this. It’s really about solving problems and then providing the solution in whatever medium that happens to be.

It could be a podcast, it could be text, it could be, you know, pictures or whatever. Maybe you just have a business on Instagram or something like that but the most important thing is. Find a group of people that has a problem and find out, like, you know, it’s painful when they’re willing to pay for the solution for it, and you don’t build anything until you find some people that have a painful problem like that and you’re willing to get, or they’re willing to give you money.

So it’s really very simple. Don’t think about like, okay, what, what podcasting microphone do I need to do? Or what? Like a webcam, like forget all that stuff. Like go find some people and just offer to help them. That’s the fastest way to do it. It’s essentially no risk. It really takes no time. And you’ll know without basically doing anything whether or not you’ve got something viable. And then once you have that, you kind of, it’s like a, like an upward spiral where you try a little bit more, you get a little bit more positive feedback, and then you slowly start growing the thing. And again, once you see it’s viable, you continue to work with it.

Jacques Hopkins: Love it. Thanks Drew. Appreciate it.

And that’s a wrap on the conversation with Drew. David, welcome back. 

David Krohse: Thank you.

Jacques Hopkins: Look, I’ll be honest with you about how I normally find guests for the podcast. Now I have this big spreadsheet. Okay. And anytime there’s ever somebody that seems interesting that could be on the podcast, I add them to the spreadsheet.

I know you’ve, you’ve messaged me like, Hey Jacques, you gotta check that this guy out. And other people have sent me request. Also, every time somebody comes on the show, I’ll usually ask them, Hey, do you have, do you, can you recommend somebody that would be good for the show? But the main way that I find people for this show is my assistant actually does research and finds people through whatever ways that she does it that she thinks would be a good fit for the show.

And that’s how we found Drew Badger. And I didn’t do the initial research. Right. And you just never know what, what you’re going to get into. And honestly, I didn’t do much research on Drew until we kind of had things booked and I started looking into, I’m like, Oh my gosh, he has nearly a million YouTube subscribers, like he’s got this one video over 17 million views. His email list is 350 like 350,000 like these numbers were just blowing my mind and I couldn’t believe that this was possible. And, and he was living in this small town in Japan. And so it got me super amped and excited to talk to him. And obviously he brought a lot of value as well. 

David Krohse: Yeah, it was awesome. I mean, I thought, I thought it was so cool. I mean, his dream was to like sculpt little Japanese gardens, banya bonsai trees, and you know, he saw this teaching English or becoming an English fluency guide is his path to do that. I don’t know if you caught this, but he said that his dream was to be Mr. Miyagi. And there was a question you asked him where you were like, what are the specific steps to like make your YouTube videos stand out? And he kinda gave you a Mr. Miyagi answer, I’d tell you totally Mr. Miyagi-ed you because he’s like it is not how you name the videos or create the thumbnails. You wax on wax off. He went really philosophical. It just said, find out what people need and bring them solutions, and that part cracked me up. But yeah, I think you got totally Mr. Miyagi there.

Jacques Hopkins: I’m glad. See, I’m glad that we can talk about this together because I guess I kind of missed that, but that’s funny. That’s a really interesting point. And look, one of my biggest takeaways honestly is you just, you never know what’s going to just explode. Like I made, I made a video and put it on YouTube back in like 2013-2014 that was called learning. Learn Piano Fast: I Show You The Secret To Learning Piano.

And at that point, my YouTube channel was nothing. It was, it was nothing. My business was nothing. And that, that video kind of exploded relatively. And today it’s got several hundred thousand views and brought in a lot of that early business. And, and like Drew, I mean, when he made that video that has over 17 million views. I mean, he might’ve thought it would do okay. I, there’s no way he thought it would, you know, get to that big and you, you just, you, you never know what’s really gonna happen. But I can promise you this. If you don’t do anything, then you’re not going to get any results.

Right? It’s almost like that, you know that, that phrase that a saying where you just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what sticks. You know? You could kind of look at it. Something like YouTube, like that. You just gotta you gotta be consistent with it. Keep putting videos out there because I, you know, think eventually, you know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna hit a big one, and whether that’s 100,000 views, a million views, 17 million views, it’s all relative. So take action.

David Krohse: Yeah, for sure. He truly said that calling himself an English fluency guide triple tripled his business and when I heard that, I was like, okay, so experts secrets that really says you have to provide a unique solution. And then when you read StoryBrand, it says that like, the business owner is the guide and the other person is the hero. And so I’m like that kind of combined two key points from those two books. I was trying to think about you and me. It’s like, I mean, do you call yourself, you call yourself a piano teacher. Do you have like a name that would like triple your results? 

Jacques Hopkins: Nah, I try. I, I tried to think about that as he was saying that. ‘Cause I thought that was, that was really interesting but that’s, that’s definitely a key takeaway and something for us all to really think about as far as our position. ‘Cause even even today, like people will ask me in the real world like, Oh, what do you do for a living? And usually I’ll just say, Oh, I’m a either a piano teacher and online piano teacher, which neither of those is completely true. Or probably what I should be saying. You know. 

David Krohse: Yeah. So you could be like a piano proficiency guide, or I could be the public speaking sensei. I was doing a little brainstorming, but I don’t know. 

Jacques Hopkins: I like how you tied that into, you know, some of the biggest books that we talk about on this podcast expert secrets and in StoryBrand, but I, yeah, I think that’s, I think that’s brilliant. And if it truly like trippled is his business, then how powerful is that?

Just like changing one little thing like that. What did you think about his, his idea for his app?

David Krohse: It sounds good. I couldn’t really visualize what it would be like but I mean, it would have to be fun and engaging. And it sounds like they’re looking at it from that perspective that it needs to be fun and engaging.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, it sounds really interesting. I like how he said, you know, even even kids could use something like that, and I really like how he’s, he’s big on not building out something like the entirety of something before seeing if it’s going to work. And I never really thought about that in terms of an app, but he’s just, he’s, he’s building the beginning of the app and then kind of getting beta testers and putting out there a little bit. If it starts to get a little bit traction, then he’ll, he’ll keep building it out further and, and you know, that’s, that’s often how I recommend doing online courses as well. The last thing I want somebody to do is build out an entire online course only to find out that nobody wants to buy it.

David Krohse: One thing that I did want to mention, he kind of gets into this what really motivates someone. Like they want to learn English, but really they want a better job or they just want to be able to travel more. And I was also thinking back to Rob, I told you that Rob Hampton’s episode was in my, one of my favorite.

And he has that greatest gig where he says people want to learn to play a, an instrument. But at the end of the day, they want to be up on stage and being a star. And so I was thinking about your course. Do you have any testimonial videos where a person is like actively playing in front of a crowd or even better?

I was thinking like you know, I love the videos where a person is surprised. So I bought, I bought my staff, these DivvyUp socks. Have you seen these?

Jacques Hopkins: No. No.

David Krohse: DivvyUp socks like you could get socks that would have your two daughters faces on them and like present them to your wife and if you videotaped her or you could give them to your parents, but like if you were videotaping it, the look on their face when they like pick up these socks and they’re like, Oh my gosh, it’s my grandkids. I got, I got my two staff members, I got them their dogs on their socks, and I was videotaping when they, when I presented them and it was DivvyUp this company. It’s D I V V Y up socks. They actually reached out to me and they put that into like a compilation video of all these surprises.

So yeah, I was just thinking in years, like, I mean, if you could somehow get people to record. Themselves surprising somebody or playing a concert like those might be compelling if you say that that’s what really what people want. What do you think? 

Jacques Hopkins: Well, it depends on, it depends on the why. That’s a really cool story about the socks, man, and that’s awesome that that company used it, but I, I really think it depends on the why, because a lot of what I’m pitching to people is, is personal enjoyment, like I want you to be able to sit down and actually have fun at your piano. I don’t want it to be this big chore.

I don’t want it to be something that, that you’re resistive to. And so every testimonial video I have is, is just that person playing at the piano and them explaining their situation. And I think of of one lady who send me a testimonial a few months ago, and she was, she was saying how she was just in a really dark place, like her father had died and she just, she didn’t know like how to get up, get out of bed and do things, and then the piano came into her life.

And that just really being able to play the piano and play certain songs on the piano really was what allowed her to get past this, this really a dark time in her life. And to me, like that’s, that’s one of the most powerful types of stories that that could be in a testimonial for what I have to offer.

David Krohse: Yeah, well, I’ve actually, I was brainstorming today, I was thinking about this like little idea and so I actually have like a, I think it could be your Superbowl commercial. This is like a $5 million idea. I said, do you want to hear it? This is a script. 

Jacques Hopkins: Nah, I don’t. I don’t need $5 million, David. No yeah, let’s hear it. That’s awesome. What you got?

David Krohse: All right. All right, so it opens up in this like retirement age couple. They’re like touring this event center, beautiful space, and the lady says like, this would be perfect for our 40 year anniversary, and it’s just like. Let’s sign the paperwork. And so the guy in the couple, he like, they’re walking and he like walks past this grand piano and just looks at it and just kind of gets this like idea in his head.

And so then, flash to the guy is like sitting in his office. He’s clearly in like a management or business owner position, and he’s like sitting at the computer and he buys. He’s like pushing purchase on piano 21 days and he gets this big smile, but kind of off in the distance. You can see this younger lady and she like, look, she’s like an administrative assistant, but she looks at him and smiles and they smile together.

And so then the next scene, the guy is at home, he’s finishing dinner and he tells his wife, he’s like. Oh honey, I need to work late tonight, or I need to head back to work. I’ve got a project I have to work on. And so the woman just kind of looks a little bit hurt or disappointed, and then you see the guy, he’s like walking into his office and just kind of look suspicious and he goes into his main office and then he opens the door into this closet and he has the room set up with a keyboard and piano in 21 days, all set up, and he just starts practicing.

So then the next scene, let’s see here. The lady is at home and she’s getting dinner ready, and she gets a text on her phone and looks at it. And it says, you know, have to work late tonight. Sorry, honey. And so she just, you know, looks kind of crestfallen. And then the guy comes home later and he’s wearing a scarf and he takes off the scarf and like sets it down and heads into the bathroom.

And the lady like comes over there and kind of sniffs his scarf. Like, see if there’s a, you know, somebody else’s smell on it. And so then it jumps to like the anniversary party and the ladies across the room and the guy sits down at the grand piano and, you know, pulls the microphone over and just starts playing the song.

Your Song by Elton John. And the lady looks across the room and he just starts telling her how he’s learned the song just for her. And then the music swells and yeah, she’s in tears and it’s just a super heartwarming. What do you think? 

Jacques Hopkins: That’s dude, that’s, I’m like tearing up thinking about that situation over here that’s like, that’s so heartwarming and nice. That’s yeah. Can you make this happen for me? Do you by chance, like know how to make commercials like this? 

David Krohse: No. Not at all, but. I don’t know. You could do the home brew version would not look as cool, but, it would be compelling. 

Jacques Hopkins: I love it. I love it, man. I love that story. I don’t know how you came up with it, but that would be, I don’t know if, if I’m ready for Superbowl yet, but Hey, just, just a Facebook ad or just a YouTube video, that could be really cool.

And to be honest with you. No, no, go ahead. You finish that and then I’ll go into what I was going to say. 

David Krohse: That story is a little bit stolen from the movie, the wedding singer. Have you ever seen that with Adam Sandler?

Jacques Hopkins: A long time ago. A long time ago.

David Krohse: Yeah. That lady, she’s like learning to sing this song and she like pays Adam Sandler and meatballs. So that’s kind of the story.

Jacques Hopkins: I got ya. Well, you know, to be honest with you, I have a little, little bit of experience making kind of interesting ads like that because several years ago I was still working full time job and whatnot. I had this idea to do a April Fools ad, and it was air guitar in 21 days.

And so I actually hired somebody, I think it was Elance at the time. I don’t think even upwork.com existed. And I hired somebody on Elance and it was, it turned out pretty well, I would say and so I could probably go down a similar path to, ’cause he, he, he did everything he found the actors. He kind of helped with the script and everything was a, it was, it was a fun experience. 

David Krohse: Put that link in the show notes. Let’s see it. 

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’ll put, if it still exists, I think it might exist out there, but if it exists, we’ll put that link in the show notes to the commercial for airguitarin21days.com. My favorite part was he, he got this guy who had a baby strapped to his chest and one of those, you know, babybjorn carriers and he was out like doing, doing yoga and like he was doing his air guitar drills, like with his baby strapped to him, like with these yoga people. And that was, that was my favorite favorite scene. It was, it was, it was kind of clever. Nice. But I like the idea of David. I appreciate that. Well, I’ll have to, I’ll have to jot that for my, in my someday maybe list that I have going. 

David Krohse: But even just reaching out to people and just saying, Hey, you know, like, I’d love to see you guys actually performing for somebody that would make my day.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. That’s, I love it. I love it. And another thing that I want to do more of is like actually interview people as well, like get their full story rather than them just turning on a camera on their side and give me two minutes, like I want to dive deep into their story. I’ve done one of those before.

It lasted 30 minutes, and it was a phenomenal conversation with this guy named David, of all names in England, and it was just, it was honestly a pleasure for me to get to know him better because I had some, I had this impact on his life even though I didn’t really work with him one on one at all, and I got to chat with them and have another one lined up here in the next couple of weeks. I have this lady who is constantly posting videos of her playing piano in, in my student Facebook group. And she hasn’t, she hasn’t sent me a testimony or anything, but she’s constantly posting these videos and they’re so inspirational to other people just getting started or going through the process.

And so finally I was like, look, can we, can we like set up an interview? I just want to, I want to talk to you and then share that interview with everybody. 

David Krohse: Perfect. 

Jacques Hopkins: Any other takeaways from the conversation with drew. Oh, that’s the main things that I wrote down. I think this was a good one, man.

I appreciate you joining me here, David. I think this is gonna about put a button on today’s episode. Everybody listening out there, if you want to find those show notes and links from today’s episode, you can find those by going to the onlinecourseguy.com/109 so thanks again for listening to yet another episode here.

If this is your first time, then please make sure you jump back and listen to episode 89 for that online courses 101 episode. And if you haven’t done so already, please consider leaving a review for the show on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks again, and we’ll talk to you next week.