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Happy New Year from The Online Course Show! David and I are excited to be back with a new year full of awesome upcoming content for course creators, and a big goal for 2020. I’m planning on putting out an episode every week, rain or shine, which means 52 episodes chock full of important info and helpful insights into the world of online courses. It’s a tall order, but I’m feeling confident!Kicking off this first episode of the year we have Parker Stevenson as our guest. Parker is co-founder of Evolved Finance, and he’s all about bringing course creators up to speed in an area that is extremely important to maintaining a healthy business: bookkeeping

The whole point is to run a business that makes profit so that you as a business owner can live a lifestyle you want to live.

Parker Stevenson

Parker provided some great food for thought on how to deal with finances within the world of online courses. I’m definitely taking his advice into consideration, and I hope you do, too!]

In This Episode, We Talked About:

  • (1:14) Starting the new year with a big new goal for this podcast
  • (2:42) Thinking about goals, motivation, and penalties for 2020
  • (7:10) Reintroducing ourselves for new listeners
  • (9:52) David and I revisit an issue that I recently discovered with my business bookkeeping
  • (10:45) Introducing our topic and our guest
  • (13:12) Parker tells us about his business working with online course creators
  • (14:38) What is bookkeeping and why does it matter, anyway?
  • (16:44) Being your own bookkeeper vs. hiring one
  • (20:10) Insights that a service like Evolved Finance can give online course creators into their businesses
  • (25:08) Why some businesses have less potential to be sold
  • (26:44) The right percentage for profit
  • (28:54) Parker’s thoughts for course creators looking for a bookkeeping service
  • (32:41) What to look for in an accountant
  • (37:11) Discussing the Profit First concept
  • (41:43) Parker’s advice for new and aspiring course creators
  • (45:24) How established course creators can set up a consultation call with Parker
  • (48:33) Parting thoughts from Parker for course creators
  • (49:28) David and I discuss the interview
  • (52:56) What David’s been doing for bookkeeping and his tip for determining when to hire someone else
  • (55:39) My experience with video editing hires
  • (56:47) Will David outsource bookkeeping in the future?
  • (58:56) Wrapping up

We covered a lot of ground today, and I think there was plenty for new and growing business owners to consider. I hope you’ll drop me a line to let me know what aspect of today’s conversation was the most eye-opening to you. And stay tuned for another episode coming next week!

Jacques Hopkins: Today's episode is brought to you by deadline funnel. I've been using deadline funnel for years for my online piano course. Dozens of guests on this podcast have mentioned that they use and love deadline funnel. And if you have an online course business, I recommend you use deadline funnel too.

Evergreen funnels are amazing and nothing makes it easier or better experience for your customers than deadline funnel, and they have set up a special deal just for listeners of the online course show to learn more about deadline funnel and what that special deal is, head to deadline again that's, which is short for online course guy.

Regular people are taking their knowledge and content, packaging it up in an online course and they're making a living doing it. But not everyone is successful with online courses. There's a right way and there's a wrong way, and I'm here to help course creators actually succeed with online courses.

Hi, I'm Jacques Hopkins and this is The Online Course Show.

And off we go. Welcome aboard. Glad you're with us. This is the online course show. I am your host, Jacques Hopkins, and here with me is our cohost, David Krohse.

David Krohse: Hey there.

Jacques Hopkins: And we are excited to dive into all things online courses with you today. How are you doing, Mr. David Krohse?

David Krohse: I'm super fantastic.

Jacques Hopkins: It is a new year for the online course show and one of my goals is to put out 52 episodes this year. It's a weekly show. I think that pace is great for, for me, for you, for the audience out there, but sometimes I do get a little bit lazy and we didn't put out 52 episodes last year, but I want to give my word to you and to the audience that we will have 52 episodes in 2020.

David Krohse: Oh, wow. It's gonna be tough.

Jacques Hopkins: You don't sound like super optimistic, man. I thought you were going to be like, yeah, way to go Jacques, like, that's awesome. So pumped. You're like, Oh, wow. Like, yeah. Well, we'll see. We'll see.

David Krohse: No, no. We can do it. We can do it. You just told me that though. I'm like that's a lot. That's a lot of content.

Jacques Hopkins: Weekly, man. We could, we could do even more often, but I think, I think that a weekly show is, is what this show was meant to be. So that's the plan for 2020 and I want everybody out there listening to this to hold me accountable. If you ever go through and you're like, man, Jacques hadn't put out a new episode in two or three weeks, you email me, you reach out to me, Jacques you promise me back on the first episode of this year we'd have 52 episodes. What is going on?

David Krohse: Nice. I like it.

Jacques Hopkins: So look, today's episode is about bookkeeping. I'm excited to get into this. It's not something we've gotten into a lot on this podcast, but first, Hey, what's been going on with you, David?

David Krohse: Not a whole lot. I haven't done a lot of work on my course. One thing I have enjoyed doing though, I started this thing I called the inspired book and brew crew, and it definitely is relevant for what you're talking about, setting goals, but essentially the concept was that I, I'm super involved in cycling and I have all these cycling friends, but I just wanted another group of people.

Here in my town that I would like con come together with and connect with. And so I came up with this idea of having a book club, but we would focus on inspiring books, books that in some way just inspire us to be better or have an actual nonfiction component. Some of them are biographies. And I figured that would actually bring people that are goal oriented people.

And then once I thought of that, you actually inspired or your this podcast inspired a portion of it because at each meeting we do portion of the meeting is people set penalty goals, which is a concept I learned about from you. I know you didn't come up with it, but the end of the meeting people will say. By the next meeting, I'm going to accomplish this goal, whether that's one guy said ride a thousand miles, and we have people that are starting businesses, so they'll say they're going to set up their website by the next meeting, and then they set a penalty. People have really, I kind of encourage people to be creative with their penalties.

So you know, some people will just say, well, we meet at a brewery, and so some people will say that the penalty is just by a round a drinks. Another person said, if I don't get my goal done, then I have to give $100 to my sister-in-law that I really don't like very much. Another one that's been thrown out there is somebody would have to donate $100 to the Westboro Baptist Church, which is like that terrible group that like goes in and like just tickets or whatever it at funerals.

But man, super fun. I do want to invite anybody out there to go ahead and just look for inspired book and brew crew on Facebook and join the group and I put out questions each week. It's been great. So thank you for the suggestion of the penalty goals, Jacques.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, absolutely. That's, that's been one of the things that people reach out to me and say that they've actually implemented that they want, one of the big things they've gotten out of this podcast, just this, this penalty goal thing. And, and just to kind of reset some context there, my accountability partner, Nate Dodson, and I, we meet every Friday and we set these penalty goals with each other. And it's a standard penalty goal for us each time it's $100 we have to pay the other person if we don't accomplish a certain goal that we set for the week. And looking back, you know, in 2019 I think that I ended up having to, it's $100 and I ended up having to pay him the a hundred dollars three times, and he paid me one time.

So he's winning, but they work because we set multiple of these penalty penalty goals every week. So that means that we set. You know, over a hundred throughout the course of the year, and I missed on three and he missed on one and I promise you I wouldn't have gotten near those that many things done and accomplished that I wanted to do without those penalty goals because a lot of times, like it's Thursday afternoon, I haven't gotten something done, and if I didn't have a penalty goal associated with it, I wouldn't get it done. But because I don't want to pay Nate that $100 I make sure it gets done for our meeting on Friday. But I like what you said, you can take those things a step further and make it even more painful because I don't mind getting $100 from Nate, you know, it's $100. But if instead, like he had the donate to, you know, the Nazi organization or you know, some, some something we don't agree with, Westboro Baptist Church, that's even more, more painful. I like that.

David Krohse: Exactly.

Yeah, it's been fun. The next meeting, then I'm going to set a goal to actually accomplish my evergreen webinar or get that, get that set up so. Draw the line in the sand and yeah, it's effective. Weekly would be huge, but also intimidating for me. I have to admit monthly, all the things that I have going on monthly is more realistic. Like one big thing a month.

Jacques Hopkins: You could set a penalty goal with like the whole audience of this podcast. You know, pay everybody that's listening to this a hundred dollars if you don't get your evergreen webinar done.

David Krohse: Oh, dang. I don't know about that.

Jacques Hopkins: I bet you'd get it done.

David Krohse: I'll get it done.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, and look, I was thinking as we were talking, you know this, this being the first episode of the new year, let's just do a quick reset on, on who, who each of our us are as far as course creation goes.

I mean, somebody maybe is just listening to this episode is the first episode they're listening to the podcast and okay, who are we to be talking about online courses? Why don't you go first and tell us a little bit about your online course.

David Krohse: Well, I am somebody that has had a little bit of success with online courses. I'm a chiropractor. I started my practice and really struggled and eventually I found one marketing thing that worked. I tried all these marketing things and I say that the paid advertising that I did, it gave me about all I walked away with was a a complex that I might secretly be hideously ugly because I would spend all this money on Facebook ads and it wouldn't return at all. The one thing that worked for me was going out and actually doing lunch and learns in businesses, and that brought in hundreds of thousands of dollars into my chiropractic clinic. And so I randomly found Jacques podcast a couple of years ago.

And ultimately became inspired that I could actually create an online course that would teach chiropractors how to grow through lunch and learns and started that, and I brought about $6,000 in to date. I've only done two lunches. And then the next step for me is going to be to make this evergreen and then also expand the content out for like any profession that wants to learn, learn how to go and do a successful lunch and learn to grow their local business.

Jacques Hopkins: Yes, you're, you're a course creator that is still the beginning stages and you found some level of success, but obviously looking to significantly grow that. You've got a course, you've got a system that you know works and you're just trying to get it in front of more people at this point. And then on my side.

I'm a little further along than you had been doing this a little bit longer, and obviously I'm the one that created this podcast. And I, my my course, my main course is a piano course. Piano in 21 days to date, it's brought in over a million dollars in sales and continues to make over a hundred sales each month and, and helping a lot of people.

And I'm very proud of that. And now I spend most of my time doing online course coaching and consulting, you know, this podcast, YouTube channel, and so on. And, and just to point people at to a couple of other episodes, if you want to hear more about your story, David, that was episode 106 to get a little more insight there.

And then for me, I would say go back to episode 89. That's where I last shared more of my story and a lot more about what I recommend for success with online courses. That's the online courses 101 episode.

David Krohse: All right, so I've got to ask one question before we get into this podcast. If people have listened to the last couple of episodes, there was the one where you talked about all the tools and you learned about evolve bookkeeping or...

Jacques Hopkins: Evolve finance.

David Krohse: Evolve finance and then in that episode you said, Oh, I do my own books. And then on one of these recent episodes, you admitted that you had had a little flub in your own bookkeeping and had a letter from the IRS. And then I, and then I get the, this is the one that we're going to talk about. So what was the timeline like? Did you record this interview with Parker and then get the letter from the IRS like the next day or what?

Jacques Hopkins: No, I got the letter from the IRS about five weeks ago. I actually just submitted all of my evidence and everything to them yesterday. And recorded the interview with Parker about two days ago. So there's about a month between when I got the letter from the IRS and the, the conversation with Parker.

Yeah. So this, this episode is about bookkeeping and the guests that we're having on his name is Parker Stevenson. He runs a company called evolved finance. And we last mentioned him or first mentioned him, him really in that episode about tools with Abbey Ashley and Nate Dodson. Abbey Ashley is a very, very successful course creator and she uses Parker's company to help her manage her books.

And Nate has since signed up cause he's always struggled with bookkeeping. And Nate reached out to me. He's like, look, these guys are impressive. You should probably have them on the podcast talk about bookkeeping. And so that's exactly what we did in this episode. I got a lot of value from it because here's the thing, bookkeeping to me like. Historically, it hasn't really been like a sexy topic. It's not something people get excited about. It's something you just kind of have to do. For a lot of people, it's even an afterthought.

I think in the conversation I mentioned to Parker, like when I first got started, I didn't even think about it and I didn't do anything with, with bookkeeping and reconciling finances until I had to for tax time and I went back and just kind of did it for the year at that point. But at that point it was pretty simple because you know that my first year in business, maybe I made 10 sales or something like that and didn't have a ton of expenses. Today I try to keep things pretty simple. I use Stripe to collect payments, right through clickfunnels and all that, and then with Zapier, every bit of revenue that comes into Stripe then goes through Zapier into FreshBooks.

So every time somebody makes a purchase. That payment is created in FreshBooks, and there's associated expense with that because Stripe takes a fee. And then also all of my expenses, like when when I pay for clickfunnels and activecampaign and all the tools I use and paying my contractors and paying for advertising, all that gets pretty much automatically created as an expense in FreshBooks.

So you've got your, you've got your revenue, you hit your expenses, subtract the two, you have profit. To me, bookkeeping has been that simple, but Parker provided some insights on, on why it's kind of more than that, why you should be thinking about that more. And so unless you have anything else, I think we should probably play the episode, play the interview, and then we'll, we'll talk about it a little more on the backend.

David Krohse: Yeah, let's hear it.

Jacques Hopkins: Well, let's get into the full conversation with Parker Stevenson of right now.

Hey Parker, welcome to The Online Course Show.

Parker Stevenson: Jacques, thank you so much for having me, man.

Jacques Hopkins: Let's start by letting you tell us who you are and who it is that your business helps.

Parker Stevenson: Yeah, for sure. So I know I'm a little bit of a different guest for you, so I really appreciate you having us. So I am a co-owner of a business called evolved finance, and we do bookkeeping specifically for online businesses.

So for us, we work with a lot of the businesses, I think your talking to with this podcast, which are course creators. So a big chunk of our client list are successful course creator, so everyone we work with is running at least a hundred thousand dollars a year or, or larger. Many of them the median being like about half a million, and we definitely have a good chunk of seven figure online businesses where either their entire business model is selling online courses or it's a, it's a good chunk of it. So we've specialized in bookkeeping for these types of businesses because it's so difficult to find a bookkeeper that understands sort of the intricacies of running an online business.

The type of software you deal with, the type of merchant accounts you deal with, all these pieces, let alone just sort of categorizing and organizing the financial data in the way an online business owner needs to see it in order to make good decisions in their business. So we've been doing this. My business partner founded the business in 2010 we focused on this online niche ever since. And at this point we're going to have about a hundred regular monthly clients by the end of this year.

Jacques Hopkins: I think a lot of times when we start businesses, online businesses, online courses, bookkeeping can be a big afterthought. I know for me it definitely was.

Parker Stevenson: Big time.

Jacques Hopkins: When I got started back in 2013, you start putting things out there. You pray that you make sales, money starts coming in, money goes out, and I know for me personally, I didn't really like do any like reconciliation or spreadsheets or anything until I had to at tax time the next year. In your opinion, like what is the definition of bookkeeping.

Parker Stevenson: Yeah. So bookkeeping, that's a great first question to ask. A bookkeeping because I think it's confused with like, what does my accountant do versus what does my bookkeeper do?

And a bookkeeper's role is to organize the financial data in your business so you can gain insights into how your business is functioning and running, as well as to make it easy for your accountant to file your taxes. So if you have a business, let's say you have a course business and you're not very profitable, well, if your bookkeeping's being done right, you'll be able to see, Oh, I'm spending too much on my ad spend, or, Oh, I'm spending too much on my contractors and it's eating up too much of my, my revenue, and it's not leaving with a lot of profit.

That's also, again, at the end of the year, if we can see how much profit you have left over, it makes it very easy for your accountant to go, Oh, cool. This is how much money we've spent in all the different categories. This is how much we're gonna be able to write off, and this is what you're going to owe for taxes.

So in our minds, we really want, you know, our clients, I mean, obviously we're their bookkeepers, but we really believe that every business should have a bookkeeper separate from their accountant because bookkeeping is such a specific skill to do right, that you want someone who all they do is focus on doing your books once a month.

And then you want someone who's like an accountant who's only focused on filing your taxes and they're not worried about having to organize the data for you the way a bookkeeper would. They're just concerned with, let's just make sure we're saving you as much on taxes. And also just keeping things kosher with the IRS in the state.

So, you know, sometimes some of, you know, people listening, maybe your accountant is doing your books, but are, in our opinion, an ideal situation to get to is to have a bookkeeper and an accountant and have them be separate entities in your business.

Jacques Hopkins: I think the more common scenario than an accountant being the bookkeeper would be the business owner themselves being the bookkeeper.

Parker Stevenson: For sure.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. And I'll be honest, I'm raised my hand like I'm in that boat man, 'cause I, I've always felt like an online course business is kind of one of the simplest businesses you can set up. And as far as bookkeeping goes, you know, I've got course sales coming in, and then I've got expenses going out, which are the biggest expenses would be software, you know, online course tools and software.

Parker Stevenson: Sure.

Jacques Hopkins: And subcontractors, and then small expenses after that. Maybe some advertising, online advertising. So why would I, somebody like me need to possibly look into somebody that's more of an expert in bookkeeping when on the surface it seems pretty simple.

Parker Stevenson: Yeah, no, and that, again, a really good question. So with bookkeeping, I came from the corporate world before I teamed up with, with Corey, and so a lot of the financial experience I had had, I worked at Adidas. Adidas golf specifically, and I dealt with a lot of like inventory and sales numbers. And so bookkeeping was kind of new for me and Corey, you know, really showed me how this stuff works and what I soon realized is a learning how to use bookkeeping software properly is way more difficult than I think I originally thought because there is a process called reconciliation, which is a process if you're using QuickBooks online, that ensures that, okay, I want to make sure that all the data that's happening to my checking account, credit card, paypal, account savings account, all that stuff is it's showing up in QuickBooks exactly the same way. Cause even if you're connecting the accounts and downloading the data automatically, unfortunately just no bookkeeping software has done a really good job. And even just the bank accounts, the credit card companies, sometimes there's a hiccup in how they download the data. Things get off.

And the big issue is when it comes to PayPal, we've never seen a new client come to us and have PayPal be reconciled properly because PayPal makes it extraordinarily difficult for you to reconcile PayPal properly. So there, there's all these moving pieces in terms of following the transfers of money, knowing how to categorize the expenses, and number one, just you as a business owner, spending your time on the things that you're best at and that you're going to, that's going to help drive the business forward from a revenue standpoint, we feel that by us managing the books for our clients, they know they can feel 100% confident that I'm going to get my reports every month. I'm going to have the data be 100% accurate. I'm going to have a team that can support and answer my questions around what the numbers might mean, and especially as our clients, businesses get bigger, financial complexity just comes along with that. And for them to not have to worry about having to learn new things and manage a bunch of stuff in QuickBooks, really they need to stay focused on how do I drive more revenue? How do I train and manage my team? How do I keep the operations of my business going?

So ultimately, like for someone who's like made their first $20,000 in course sales this year manage it in a spreadsheet. You know, don't, you don't have to run out and get a bookkeeper right away. You have so few transactions that it's not too big of a deal to just manage it in a spreadsheet, but as you get closer to that seven or that six figure a year in revenue, we do feel it's super important that you have someone that understands bookkeeping software really well and knows what, maybe things you just don't know because you're not, you know, you don't do bookkeeping for a bunch of other businesses.

Jacques Hopkins: I really like the definition of bookkeeping you gave. And if I heard you correctly, it was basically two big, two big things. One was insights for the business owner and the other was to make it easy for the accountant. Focusing in on the insights part for the business owner. Can you give me an example of maybe some recommendations that, that you've given to course creators, somebody running a course creation business that you, some insights that you've, you've gotten having run their books?

'Cause like I said. On the surface, it seems very simple. We've got these, we're, we're making as much money as we can on the income side, and then we're spending what we feel like we need to spend. What would be an example of advice or given out having done the bookkeeping for so long.

Parker Stevenson: Now it's going to get juicy Jacques. Now we're getting into the good stuff. So we've seen the online education space change a lot over the years. There's been a lot of, just evolution as it gets more competitive and as there's more opportunity and the market gets bigger because more people are aware of the opportunities to learn online, whatever it is they want to learn.

And so for instance, we're seeing a lot of our clients spending more money on advertising than they ever did. So let's say. Three or four years ago, we would have had some clients that they build up an email list. Maybe they had two really good years of selling directly to that email list, and then they go, alright, my lunches are getting a little smaller.

My email list isn't growing as much. How do you know? How do I start to build in the pieces to this business that I need in order to make sure my course business doesn't just, do well for a couple of years, but it stands the test of time and sticks around for 10, 15, 20 years if that's what the business owner wants.

So as we've seen our clients spend more on things like Facebook ads or Google ads, in order to get more leads, it starts to become a lot more crucial that they're paying attention to how much are they spending on ads relative to the amount of revenue they're bringing every month. So for instance, if I said I have a million dollar business, you'd be like wow, that's great. You have a million dollar business, and I go, but what you don't know is I spent $900,000 a year on Facebook ads in order to make that million, which leaves me $100,000 in profit, which likely for a business that's of that size would barely cover team costs, software costs, and the rest of the business.

So for us, we're trying to pay attention to those metrics, help our clients pay attention, understand those metrics. So for instance, the advertising, we want to make sure that that they're getting the return on investment they need to on a monthly basis from their ads in order to cover their operating expenses.

And then hopefully have what we are pushing for, for all our clients is 30% profit. And so another big factor that's going to affect that is their labor costs. So it a lot of our labor, when it comes to labor, we're trying to keep our clients around 20% of their revenue going to contractors or employees.

And that's just the patterns we've seen in this industry. So as I was saying, like maybe four or five years ago, you could go a few years only launching to an email list. Well, now we have to spend money on bringing more leads in. Our clients that only launched start to realize, okay, I need more people and support in my business in order to make my lunches more successful in order to not burn out the business owner.

So how many people should I be hiring and bringing into my business in order to make this business stable and again, have some longevity, and that's where some of these metrics like roughly 20% of your labor, or 20% of your revenue going to labor. We don't really care how much you spend on ads, as long as you understand how big of an ROI you're getting on that.

But usually 30% of your revenue going to ads. If you have a big, like cold traffic funnel is kind of the max we want to see. So there's all these little pieces in terms of like, you know, software we usually want software to be less than four and a half percent of your total revenue. We want to be paying attention to how much profit are you giving up because your wanting to travel, and although it's an owner benefit, is that travel really benefiting you or is that money you could be putting away as profit and investing in your personal wealth?

So there's all these pieces that we're trying to help our clients understand and manage so that we build profitable businesses because growth without profit for an online business that you're likely not going to be able to sell. And I'd say 90% of our clients will never really be able to sell their businesses, or if they do sell them, they'll never be like, Oh, I'm going to retire right now.

You know, the benefit we have of running a course space business is we can have 30, 40, 50% margin businesses and make our money now and not have to wait for a buyout. Like if you're a startup in Silicon Valley, you're making no money, but you're hoping you're building something that's going to be sold for millions and millions, if not billions of dollars one day.

With online course businesses, you can make really healthy profits now and also start to build your wealth now without all the risk of waiting for a buyout, but it's super important you understand when and what to invest in in your business so that you can balance profit with keeping your business stable and having longevity.

Jacques Hopkins: Well, I got plenty of follow up questions.

Parker Stevenson: I figured.

Jacques Hopkins: Let me start at the end there. Why? Why are these types of businesses, ones that you typically don't sell?

Parker Stevenson: A lot of the times with our clients because it's course-based business revolving around the owner's knowledge and the owner's brand. There's usually not a lot of appeal for an outside buyer to purchase it.

Now, if you have a business where the brand isn't built completely around you, then there's a little more potential for that, but it's, it's inevitable that whoever's kind of the course instructor or the person who developed all the content that the value is going to be best for someone like them. It's going to be hard for someone externally to come in and buy and operate this business without the support of the owner of the business.

And that's an okay thing though. And again, maybe you have, you build up a business and you get a decent little buyout at the end just to be like, okay, like I made a little something, but there tends to not be the, like usually when you're looking at selling a business, they want to like three X four X all the way up to 10 X your revenue.

Like, that's what the sales, so if you have $1 million year business, if you had, or if it was a really attractive business, maybe you could sell it for 10 million, depending on if it was maybe something like software or, I don't know, manufacturing business or something like that. But with course-based businesses, they end up selling for quite a bit less than the revenue they're creating, which is why we're like, that's fine.

Let's accept that, because there's very little investment that's necessary to start an online business like this. That's why they're so awesome. So again. Let's make our profit as much as we can now. So that way we're not relying down the road on like a buyout to really make our money from.

Jacques Hopkins: And why is 30% the the target for profit?

Parker Stevenson: Because you, you have the ability to scale your, your units without having any other direct costs associated with it. So if you were selling a physical product and you're selling a widget. Well, there's going to be raw materials that are going to be in that you have to purchase for every widget you sell versus a course with advertising and merchant fees being kind of the exception, like maybe you have to spend a certain amount of money on advertising for every course sale you make, but there's no specific manufacturing or production costs to it.

So the benefit for a business like this is that you can sell more units. Through smart marketing and smart business practices without really having to increase your expenses at the same rate. So with that being the case then it's within the owner's best interests to try to keep the business as profitable as possible.

Again, especially if we're not gonna be able to sell this business, because again, like if you were in Silicon Valley, they're going to be like, scale, scale, grow, grow, grow. Don't worry about profit. Build the value of the business, like make the business worth more money. And for a lot of online business owners, we're building lifestyle businesses.

We're not looking to sell in Silicon Valley. So for any small business, and I'd even argue, even for like if you're running a local business, the whole point is to run a business that makes profit. So you as a business owner can again, live a lifestyle that you want to live and build your personal wealth.

And based on what we've seen, cause we didn't just make 30% up out of nowhere, based on what we've seen, 30% seems to be a reasonable norm. I'd say two years ago it was 40% but now it's more like 30% because just the cost of getting more leads and I think a lot more course creators are taking it more seriously to build real businesses, like build real structure around their businesses. So again, they have a business that will be around 10, 15 years from now.

Jacques Hopkins: I'd say the majority of the people listening to this probably don't have their own bookkeeper. And maybe I'm just biased because I don't particularly, I don't personally have one, but let's say somebody is listening to this and they're convinced like, Oh, I need a, I need a bookkeeper.

Why would, why should somebody go to a specialty bookkeeper like you guys who are focused on online businesses specifically as opposed to just a generic bookkeeper?

Parker Stevenson: Yeah, that's a great question. So I'm a big proponent of niche, right? Some of the, some of the course creators we work with, the clients that I see a lot of growth it, growth with are the ones that have a very specific niche they go after and they're super clear on their target market.

And bookkeeping, and I'm going to just maybe lump accounting businesses in general if you want to include bookkeeping with that are awful at that. They'll take any business that comes their way and just do a mediocre job or a subpar job even across all the different businesses. So if I, if if, let's say we were a more classic bookkeeping business and we had retail stores, restaurants, law offices, and doctor offices, there's so many different ways that you can set up your books and there's so many intricacies to all those different business models and things that as a bookkeeper would provide more value to your customer if you understood how those things work, that it's impossible as an accountant or bookkeeper to understand all those business models and have an efficient and effective way of doing the books for all of those different, different types of businesses, so they have to create a broad way of doing all those things that doesn't really fully provide value to any single one of them.

It just kind of gets things done so they can get the taxes done. The way we look at it at evolved finance is, again, as a business owner, whatever business I was in, a lawyer, doctor retail, I want numbers every month so I can make decisions in my business where to invest, how much to invest, and also just have a scorecard around. Am I running my business well? Do the numbers show me that I'm making the right decisions? And so for us at evolved finance everything we've done is to, number one, do the books properly for course space business owners, because again, there's things that, and I don't, I'm not trying to call you out Jacques, but I'm sure if we got into your books, there's like, again, you don't know what you don't know, and maybe there's some things that you're like, Oh, I didn't realize I was supposed to be doing that, or I didn't know I could do that, or I didn't know I was missing that.

And maybe you're doing it perfectly, man. Like there's honestly sometimes the business owner cares more than their bookkeeper would anyways, and you could be crushing it on the bookkeeping side. But typically when we see that, you know, clients come to us, it's just obvious that the bookkeeper didn't fully know how to set it up the way we would want to set it up for an online business owner.

So the, so the data is super accurate, but it's not just the data being accurate, that's half the battle. But like you said, if you want to get insights from these numbers. We have a very specific way we set it up so we can understand, all right, how much are we spending on our cost of goods? How much are we spending on our labor or travel?

We have very specific categories we use and we also know and are able to support and guide our clients around. What are the things they're supposed to be paying attention to? Like are my metrics good or bad? Like am I spending too much in certain places or am I fine? And that's where we've never really seen another bookkeeping firm provide that level of support.

That's something that we think is very unique to us. So we, we, as part of our service, we're able to provide an extra level of support that, again, we've just never seen anyone do, but our clients love and are so happy they find because there's so few people talking about this backend part of your business, which is managing your cashflow so you can keep your business profitable.

And I just don't think there's anyone else in the industry with as much experience as we have at evolved finance and it's, I think the reason why our clients stick around. We've had clients who have been around with us since 2010 which were bookkeepers or accountants or anything like that. It's just very, very rare.

Jacques Hopkins: So, same question, but applied to accounting next and here, here's why I want to ask that is because you know I've got, I don't have a bookkeeper, but of course I have an accountant, but he is, he doesn't understand my world at all, right? He doesn't, he doesn't even know what Stripe is. We talk about that. He, he calls it something else. He's really old, he's really old school.

If, if I were to have maybe a specialty bookkeeper who knew online courses, is that enough to not worry about the specialty of my accountant or should people also have accountants who, who are familiar with online courses?

Parker Stevenson: That's a really great, I think another really great question, man. That is something that we worry less about for clients if we're doing the books. Their accountants don't have to be as much online space experts, but like, you know, I remember when I first got involved in this business, some of our clients accountants would be like, so you're selling courses, are you sending them DVDs? Like, are you sending physical DVD? It's like, no, it's all on the internet. It's all online.

I think ultimately, as long as your account knows what can and can't be written off, and it's set up clearly on the books because the books are set up in a certain way, sure. But I will say it makes me a little nervous if they're not really familiar with like Stripe, and I think there's enough newer accountants out there that are familiar with, with what's going on in the online world, that if you're one of our clients, I'd probably be sending you a couple of recommendations of some accountants that are more familiar with this space. But if you don't have a bookkeeper or you don't have a bookkeeper that knows your, your your space, then I do think it multiplies the importance of your accountant understanding, like, just like what is a reasonable expense for an online business to write off. So for instance, we have some clients that like maybe they're concerned more influencers or like a YouTuber, like we have one who, she, she has a very big YouTube following and she's kind of a fashion and style blogger.

And or vlog, or I should say, and she sells some digital content around that. And if their accountant didn't understand their business, she won't be able to write off half of her expenses. You know, she's buying things that are specific to her, you know, making content that is a legitimate business expense.

Like she has to spend money on these things. But I could see an old school accountant going, I don't understand that, so I'm not going to write it off. And so you do put yourself in a situation where you might not be getting all the tax write offs you need if your accountant is truly clueless on what you do.

But again, if you have a good bookkeeper who understands your business and sets up the P and L properly. You give yourself a better chance of getting all those write-offs, even if the accountant isn't as savvy to the online space.

Jacques Hopkins: But how? How do you find a good accountant? And maybe I'm just ignorant here, but wouldn't, doesn't your accountant kind of need to be in your, in your state?

Parker Stevenson: Not necessarily. The only one, the only place where we are very adamant that our clients get an accountant in their area's New York city, because New York city has some extra taxes in the city that can definitely like New York city unfortunately just one of the toughest places from a tax standpoint to be running a business. But as long as they like, cause there's certain States, for instance, like count, like every County is going to know California cause they're going to have a bunch of clients in California. But I, I'm not a big fan of local accountants that only work with, with businesses in your specific area, because a lot of the times they're not going to have a big enough, wide enough scope to see what's going on in other States and, and, and see some of the trends that are happening from a tax perspective, and I'm generalizing here, I'm sure there's a lot of wonderful local small accounting firms and we're not actually, doesn't mean, I think big accounting firms are necessarily the solution overall. I think ultimately what we want our clients looking for is an accountant that's going to be willing to answer questions throughout the year.

Like if you have questions that pop up, they should email you back. And that's something we see a lot of accountants struggle with. Their customer service isn't always super great, and you also want an accountant that again, just has at least a baseline understanding of what you're doing as, as a business owner.

So again, they're not missing out on tax write offs because they don't get what you're doing. But some of that is like asking around, like again, we have some accountants that we have one accountant we wholeheartedly recommend. We have some other ones that we kind of like or testing out because we've had accountants drop the ball for us.

So unfortunately the reality is I think the accounting business model is just a very difficult one to scale. And when an accountant gets popular, they get busy and then their work tends to suffer a bit. So a lot of the time it's just a matter of, it's like finding a good mechanic or finding a good doctor or a dentist. Sometimes you get to try a few until you find someone that really fits the bill for what you need.

Jacques Hopkins: Are you familiar with Profit First by Mike Michalowicz?

Parker Stevenson: I am.

Jacques Hopkins: I highly recommend that book to people. It definitely, I would say, transformed my business, the financials of my business by applying those concepts. What are your thoughts on the concepts of Profit First?

Parker Stevenson: I think profit first is better than doing nothing. So if you're a new business and you're, you don't really have a bookkeeper or you don't know really where to start with your finances, then it's a great place to start and I've read the book and I think the intentions behind the book are really good.

What we've seen is when our clients come to us, they stop using profit first because an on like, and maybe for different businesses that aren't online businesses, it might be even more powerful, but when it comes to online businesses, cashflow is usually so positive for our clients because again, we're dealing with a lot of businesses that like, I wouldn't say they're struggling, but if we had a course business that was doing 20% there's still plenty of margin there for them to pay themselves and to not have to use debt to pay expenses and things like that. But again, we have some clients that are doing 40, 50 we've had, we've seen 60 and 70% margin for some of our clients.

So when that's the case, to go through what we feel is a lot of extra work to put profit first in place. We feel like, and this is no disres- disrespect to Michael or the book, or the fact that you love it, but we feel it's a bit of a bandaid for fully understanding the financials of your business, which is fully capable, like every business owner and we work with every type of business owner, creatives. Some people you would call woo, maybe have a little bit of hippy tendencies to them and would never think they would want to understand the numbers, but what we've found is proper bookkeeping done in the right way for your business fixes a lot of the issues, I think profit first is trying to fix and does it in a way that I think is more sustainable and responsible.

So did I just piss you off and everyone else that does Profit First?

Jacques Hopkins: You obviously know significantly more about about this stuff than I do. So there's no question it significantly benefited my business. But the thing is that I wasn't, I wasn't being very intentional with it to begin with.

Parker Stevenson: Yup.

Jacques Hopkins: And I was running everything out of one bank account. And being able to, to shift focus and have different bank accounts focused on different things was just a game changer. And I think what you're saying is that there's, there's plenty of other maybe better ways to do that.

Parker Stevenson: Yeah, that's, and that's what a good P and L report supposed to do cause we send our clients five reports. And this is, and again, this is the struggle like I, the problem with our industry in general with bookkeeping is that no one does it the same. And unfortunately, a lot of bookkeepers, and especially a lot of accountants don't get into this industry because they want to provide customer support.

Like they want to file your, like an account wants to file your taxes and not talk to you for the rest of the year, in general. Bookkeepers just want to send you reports and then don't ask them any questions because a lot of the times, I hate to say it, a lot of bookkeepers aren't doing it right and aren't necessarily that great cause you don't need to be certified to be a bookkeeper and most business owners look at bookkeeping as a commodity instead of as a value add to their business. So we think our solution is the best because we've put in the work and the time to understand our client's businesses and build a bookkeeping service that is a lot different than what a lot of other bookkeepers would be providing.

So if you're a small business owner out there and you're struggling to find someone to help you with your finances and profit first makes a difference for you and gets you going in the right direction, awesome. Like, absolutely, because it is really frustrating to find a good to find good financial support in general.

But I think what we prove to our clients is that our service is like, Oh, this is what I should have been doing the whole time. This is how I should have been looking at my business the whole time. I just needed someone to organize the data for me in the right way and help me understand the trends of this industry and learn from someone who seen behind the scenes of a bunch of other businesses like mine.

So I know. What the potential of my business is and where I should be, you know, spending money and where I should be cutting money. So, you know, it's ultimately anyone taking any steps towards organizing their finances, I'm all for it. But we do feel that proper bookkeeping and really understanding the financial side of your business, which isn't complicated, it just needs to be put in front of you in the right way. There's no substitution for that, and you will be a significantly better entrepreneur in the long run. The more you understand how money flows in and out of your business, and especially when you realize, Oh, it's not that complicated, just needs to be organized properly.

Jacques Hopkins: Let's, let's talk to complete beginners next 'cause there's a lot of people listening to this who are just getting into online courses. They like the idea of it.

Parker Stevenson: Sure.

Jacques Hopkins: Maybe starting to create one of their own, but really haven't, you know, spend the money or made any money yet they're at the beginning stages. What are some things. People can do right now to set themselves up for success because I'm thinking, you know, more advanced people, the right answer is, Hey, sign up with Parker services. But if you're just at the beginning...

Parker Stevenson: Yeah.

Jacques Hopkins: That's probably not a good fit. What are the things they can be doing now to be set up for success?

Parker Stevenson: It's perfect. So if I were starting a business right now from scratch, what I would be doing is I would be opening a checking account specifically for my business. It doesn't have to, like, I'm not telling everyone to go run out and open an LLC, start an LLC or an S Corp or anything like that.

You don't have to create a business entity right away, especially if you're testing things out. But ultimately you do want to have one checking account where only business transactions are going through it. And so what that will allow you to do is allow you to connect like your merchant account to that and see all the money come into one place.

It's not going to be tied up with any other money and maybe you're still working full time, part time, that's not getting mixed together. We're seeing all the deposits happening in a checking account on its own, and we're running all the business expenses through that checking account as well, which for most businesses it could be or Thinkific, Kajabi, Teachable account, it's going to be maybe some email marketing software and you know, maybe a virtual assistant helping you with a couple of things. But we want all of that going through that main checking account, so that way every month, if you wanted to put together a spreadsheet and go, okay, for the month of November, I did X amount of dollars in sales, I saw hit the merchant accounts, the merchant account deposit into the checking account, and I can see I spent X amount of dollars on these transactions.

Maybe there were seven to 10 expenses and now you're like able to see, okay, here's how much money I had left over, or maybe here's how much money I lost that month. In the beginning, you're probably going to lose some money when you begin with, until you launch and start to generate some revenue, but making sure your, your business finances, however you want to set them up are separate from your personal finances, I think is super important because there is an extra responsibility when you decide, I'm going to start a business because now you have to be thinking. I have to manage my personal budget, which everyone has to do. But now you're taking on this extra financial entity, which is your, your business. However deep into it you are. And it's really important for your clarity in terms of how you think about your money to be thinking about your, your business and what's going on with financially separate from your personal.

Because it starts to get really complicated and really cloudy if all your business and personal transactions are happening in one place. So if at the very least. One of the steps you take to making a commitment to your, your business is just opening up a checking account and having that be a dedicated spot for all your business transactions to happen in.

That's a really good place to start because even though you might not need a bookkeeper. I think everyone who starts to spend money on their businesses, even if it's buying one of your courses, Jacques, and that's a tax deductible expense, any of your software expenses, those are all things that are going to affect your tax bill.

So if all of these transactions are happening in one bank account, it's also gonna make it easier for an accountant to help you figure out what your tax liability might be. Because again, you don't have someone trying to sift through all of your groceries and personal shopping and all that mixed in with your business.

So financially separating business and personal help. It helps you track what's going on in your business better and also helps your accountant to file your taxes more easily.

Jacques Hopkins: Next let's, let's talk to those that have a online course business already, and let's say somebody is listening to this and is convinced. That they need a bookkeeper and are impressed by what you have to say and they want to sign up for your services. How do they do that and what are those first 30 days going to look like?

Parker Stevenson: Yeah, so Schedule a call with me. Art, again, when I was talking about niche, we are very niche. We're very specific about who we work with. So if you're making, you're starting, if you're at least starting to get into the six figure range or you're making 100,000 a year or more in revenue. You're a good fit. As long as you're doing of operating in us dollars, then you'll be a good fit and you're not selling any, which I don't imagine any of your listeners would be, you're just not selling any physical inventory, you're not an eCommerce business.

If you fit that bill, then you'd go to, set up a call with me. If we have a conversation still feels like a good fit, then we would move forward on the onboarding process and essentially the way our service works is you would get onboarded with my business partner to get all your logins.

And first off, you actually signed an agreement. We have you sign an actual contract say we promise we're not gonna send you, you know. Share your personal financial information because we understand that a lot of people, the idea of someone coming in and getting their logins, looking at their financial, the financial activity in their business, it can be a little intimidating.

So we have an agreement that protects them and also just make sure you understand what we're doing for you on a monthly basis. But once we get that agreement signed, we get your logins, we have a call to make sure all those logins work and get your QuickBooks online account set up. Once we have that, we hit the ground running and as part of the onboarding process, once we get your first month's book's done. You and I would hop on a call or me and the client would hop on a call so I can go over your first month's reports with you, give you some feedback and advice on what's going on in your business, and just make sure that you're ready to hit the ground running.

From there, you get five reports every month and a dashboard, and you would also get access to our client learning center, which is essentially a digital course, we use teachable and it has a bunch of content, video content on there that teaches a lot of this stuff that we feel online entrepreneurs need to know. It's not something that we expect our clients just go through, like go through it in a week and be done, but it's meant to be a reference and in a place to get questions answered.

And then also we will be doing two group calls a week for our clients, almost like an office hours for all of our clients to get a chance to talk with myself and, or my business partner, Corey, to ask questions about their businesses, to get feedback on their business model, to get feedback on their business strategy.

Because again, we've been doing this so long and we've seen so much in this space, we're able to provide some very focused advice and guidance for our clients that they just can't get anywhere else. So there's some other pieces to this as well, but it's that balance of getting your books done on time every month.

With getting some extra support and guidance with your numbers in general, understanding your business more deeply. That's sort of what makes us so unique and different to other bookkeeping services.

Jacques Hopkins: Well, Parker, it's been a pleasure, man. Thanks for dropping so much valuable information to everyone. I'm just wrapping things up now. Let us know if there's any other advice you have for course creators, listeners to this podcast, and I guess remind us that website one more time.

Parker Stevenson: Yeah. So what I'll say is, again, this online education space, if you're thinking about doing it, now's as good a time as ever because we've seen so many people have success.

If you are really dedicated to helping your students and providing value and giving them a really great experience, anything's possible. You know, I just kind of want to say that because I know there's probably some people listening going, should I do this as the course thing for me? And just know we've seen a lot of people have significant success, just like I'm sure you know.

Jacques, you're talking to people on your podcast all the time who are proving that it's real. And I can tell you from the backend side of things, looking at the numbers and seeing if businesses are really making money, it's changed. You know, this type of business model is changing people's lives. So if you do have a course based business and you're starting to have some success, then go to and let's have a conversation.

Jacques Hopkins: Thanks Parker.

All right, that's a wrap on the conversation with Parker. David, welcome back.

David Krohse: Thank you.

Jacques Hopkins: I thought that was a, I thought that was a great conversation, man. I liked mixing it up. First of all, like a lot of times when I interview somebody on the podcast, it's a, it's another course creator, just diving into their story, trying to give people inspiration and some actionable advice as far as the course creation process goes and marketing all of that.

This is different. This was all about bookkeeping. A lot of good tips. Like I said before, we played the interview. I didn't really realize how important bookkeeping really is. And one of my biggest takeaways personally was, and I think I mentioned this when I was talking to him, was just his definition of bookkeeping.

When I asked him about that and breaking it down into the two main reasons that you want to have good bookkeeping is first of all, insights for your business. And second of all, making things easy for your accountant, which I think are both great things.

David Krohse: Definitely. Yeah. And that. That insights into the business. I don't know if that's very common to find in bookkeepers. I think they are doing something very unique here and it provides a lot of value. It sounds like with your accountant, you don't feel like they've ever, your accountant has never functioned as like a business coach, and I have not had that relationship with my accountant for my chiropractic office either, and I've kind of wondered if that's something that I should be seeking out. But then I'm also a little bit of a cheapskate where I'm like, well, if you said, do you want to go on and spend $200 a month or a quarter to go and meet with your accountant to see if he has any input into your business, then I started to think, well, I don't know if you'd really have anything worthwhile.

But what they're doing there, and if they help you run your business, I think it can be super valuable. I know that in the early episodes, like just as somebody who's had a business for awhile, I observed or I observed that you, you in particular compared to Nate, you would fall into something I call like shiny stuff's syndrome.

So you, you were like, I'm buy, I had a lot of a great month. I'm buying a laptop. You know, I had a great month. I upgraded my camera and, and Nate was over there more like, you know, I just, I just save a lot of money. But yeah, a bookkeeper can help to just help you direct your spending in a way that actually creates more profit.

Jacques Hopkins: You had seen, it seems to be that way. It was very interesting hearing all of that. And his services certainly are for everybody. If I do want to, to encourage people to go to and check it out. If you're interested, schedule that consultation call with Parker, but the services aren't cheap.

I'm looking at the site now and I think they started about $400 a month, and if somebody is just getting started, they don't need this, but if you're an established course creator and you can afford that $400 a month, it sounds, sounds like a really a really good thing for, for your business.

Now, my accountant certainly isn't coaching me in any way because he's not familiar with what I do. I mentioned that in the conversation, like he has no clue really about what goes into to my business. He's just doing the numbers and I think it'd be really great to have an accountant that's also knowledgeable in this area and for you, like what if there was an accountant who specialized in chiropractic businesses. Do you think that would be helpful?

David Krohse: It might be, but you know, chiropractic is, is another one that's simple in a way. I mean, it's kind of simple like the online courses. So yeah, they could provide some value, but it's hard to say. It's hard to say.

Jacques Hopkins: Now what? What do you do? I mentioned kind of what I'm doing for bookkeeping. What are you doing for bookkeeping at this point?

David Krohse: Well, essentially we have QuickBooks. We have in on our computer version of it. And so as a chiropractor, my stuff is going in there every day. And then, you know, I'll talk a little bit. I was thinking one thing that I could mention just to provide value is whether people should be doing their own books or whether they should look at outsourcing things quickly and somewhere.

I think I might've come up with this myself, but maybe I learned it from somebody else. But when you look at your business, it's good to just figure out what, what you absolutely have to do and what you love to do. And then figure out what you can outsource. And so I know that you just hired on an additional staff person.

The thing that I did is I just got a word document, but you could just take a blank piece of paper and create like a four by four grid or a six by four grid and just start filling in that, that grid, every single thing that you have to do in your business. If you're just like the single person doing it all, and then just with like either highlighting on word or with a colored pencil, if there's things that you love to do or you have to do, m`ark those green, you know that's yours no matter what.

And then if you have something that you like, you can do it. You don't mind it that much, but, but you don't love it. And somebody else could do that, put that in yellow. And then if there's something that you hate, and especially if you hated it enough that you put it off, put that in like a pink or a red color.

So I did that exercise and bookkeeping was a red, I mean, I hate doing it. I put it off. There was a period of time I was running my office by myself and it would get put off, and then I'd have to reconcile 12 months of bank statements and it just became this terrible process. But then when you hire people, like as soon as possible, you offload the red ones, or like the yellow ones, a lot of times are busy work tasks, things that are easy, but somebody else could do them, you know, offload those.

So that's just a simple thing that, you know, when you start your business, you got to do everything from financial perspective. But you'd make that grid and anything that's pink or yellow, those are the ones that you're trying to hire somebody to do.

Jacques Hopkins: I really, I really loved that because I think one of the things I would've done differently years ago is start outsourcing sooner, and I liked that methodology of kind of writing the things down and then doing the different highlights.

I think one thing for me that I wish I would've done sooner is, is the video editing, because I spent a lot of time learning how to do video editing and then doing the actual video editing, and then at the end of the day, my video is weren't as good as if I had somebody that knew what they were doing and specialized in video editing, and you can, you can find people very, very inexpensive in some other countries that do that do really, really great work.

David Krohse: What give us just an estimate, like what? Let's say you create a 10 minute video and you send the content, what are you paying somebody for that? Just for a new new course creator? What are we actually looking at?

Jacques Hopkins: Well, it depends greatly. The previous video editor that I used was $18 an hour where I found him on Upwork. He's in Romania, does amazing work. And so a 10 minute video would probably take him in total three or four hours. So we're talking $70 there. My, my video editor I have now is in the Philippines and he's full time and, and he's, he's less than that. So, so we're talking about even less than that. It depends where these people are located, their experience level and so on.

But in the, in the old days when you needed to outsource, you'd find somebody locally or definitely in the United States and in a good video editor or in the United States is 120 to 150 dollars an hour. And that's just not gonna work for somebody starting out. But go to and find somebody that's got good ratings, does good work, see their, see their portfolio, and man. That's definitely something I wish I would've done sooner.

David Krohse: So back to your question, like for the course sales, I have those all get deposited into this other bank account, and then just periodically I would just go in and reconcile those and get them inputted it into my QuickBooks.

Jacques Hopkins: So pretty simple on your end as well.

David Krohse: It seems very simple.

Jacques Hopkins: Do you think that when you are succeeding to a higher level with your course sales that you would consider something like outsourcing your bookkeeping?

David Krohse: Definitely. So for a while I had this, my billing manager, she was doing all the reconciliation and then she kind of went into semi-retirement. She was only working seven hours for me, but she started volunteering at this dog, dog rescue place, and now she's working there like 60 hours a week rescuing dogs. And so I don't have her currently.

But yeah, outsourcing at one X, yeah, I would love to do that. As far as this particular service, the one thing that I would say provides a lot of value is they do those weekly calls or biweekly calls, and I mean, you can't really put a value on the fact that you're networking with these other successful course creators.

So these Parker and his, his partner were very smart to create a community aspect, and you know, $400 a month if it plugs you in with these, these people that are just flying high and sharing other stories of success. I mean, that might be the biggest value that people are getting out of it.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. They, they are definitely creative in their offer for sure. It's not simply bookkeeping. There's, there's more to it than that. They have a course. They have the, the, the office hours. Do they have the, one of their packages, they actually send you a video of them reviewing your month and then providing the advice and insights to your business. So it was, it was really great.

And look, you know, they, they're not sponsoring this episode or anything like that. I just thought they could bring a lot of value to this audience. I think that Parker did bring value in the conversation. And, and for that, I want to certainly promote his stuff. So I think that's going to about do it for this episode, David, but I want to encourage those out there listening to this, to head to evolvedfinance. com and if you're a, if you think it might be a fit, just schedule that call with Parker and, and talk to him about it directly to see if it would be a good fit.

So that's going to do it, man. The show notes for this episode are going to be at I also want to tell people about the online course accelerator.

That is a course that historically has been $997 that is my, my course on how to do courses on how to succeed with courses, and I just finished putting out there version three of that course, my latest and greatest training. And with version three, this is going to run with version three.

It's free.

There's only one small catch. I asked you to sign up and purchase a copy of one of my all time favorite books for course creation. And that is Expert Secrets. I think you've, you've gone through expert secrets right, David?

David Krohse: Oh yeah. It's a great book.

Jacques Hopkins: It's a great book. So I asked you to, to, to buy that through my affiliate link, and I think the book is $7.99. Once you do that, I'll give you free access to the latest version of the online course accelerator. And that's going really, really well. People are, a lot of people are signing up for it. And really the, the reason I'm making it free is because I have found that, the affiliate income has, has provided a substantial substitute for charging a fee for the course.

So once you're inside, like as a course creator, you know this, there's a lot of tools that make, make our lives easier as course creators. And I recommend a lot of tools throughout the course, clickfunnel, activecampaign, bonjoro and so on. And so it's my hope that by providing the online course accelerator for free, that people then in turn will will say thank you and when they, when they're going to sign up for some of these tools anyway, they use my affiliate links and that's going really, really well.

It's a big win-win. And so if you want to go ahead and do that yourself, just go to and you'll find the link for the online course accelerator and how to enroll for free. And guys, I mentioned this at the beginning, but if this is your first time listening to the podcast and definitely jumped back to episode 89 that's our online courses 101 episode, and if you haven't done so already, please consider leaving a review for the podcast on your favorite podcast platform.

David, thanks for joining me for this episode. That's a wrap.