If there’s one thing that’s true for nearly all online course creators, it’s that your course content includes at least some video components. On today’s episode I had the chance to speak with Demelza Marie, who is all about helping course creators make the best possible impression with video.

“People tend to focus a lot more on the camera and equipment, and not how to use it.”

– Demelza Marie

Demelza provided some valuable food for thought about how to improve video production no matter whether you’re a new course creator or someone who’s been doing this for years. It was great to hear the tips and tricks she shared!

In This Episode, We Talked About: 

  • (1:38) The prevalence of video-based online courses
  • (2:45) The Win of the Week
  • (7:23) My most recent live webinars and how my course is doing during current events
  • (9:38) Dealing with trolls and people who don’t want to hear my story
  • (12:28) An update from David
  • (15:04) Introducing Demelza Marie
  • (15:45) Why she believes video quality is key for online course success
  • (17:28) Production quality vs content quality
  • (18:32) Who Demelza helps, and why different types of videos may suit different niches better
  • (20:55) The LACEY framework for improving video quality
  • (24:09) Dealing with lighting challenges and assessing my setup
  • (27:04) How to create good quality audio
  • (29:19) Choosing a camera AND a filming angle
  • (32:25) Editing your videos (or should you?)
  • (36:03) Practicing and presenting your content on camera
  • (38:22) What aspects of video production Demelza sees course creators struggle with the most
  • (39:20) What about 4K?
  • (40:13) Demelza’s course offerings and resources for online course creators
  • (41:16) Her advice for new and aspiring course creators
  • (42:24) David and I discuss takeaways from the interview
  • (44:13) Some favorite tools and my current camera setup
  • (47:37) Developing good energy on camera + a funny misunderstanding
  • (52:40) Wrapping up

We covered a lot of important ground on video production today, so I hope you’ll drop me a line and let me know your favorite part of the conversation!

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Now on to episode 130 on why and how you should use the Lacy framework for every video you make. Let's go. Regular people are taking their knowledge and content, packaging it up in an online course and they're making a living doing, but not everyone is successful with online courses. There's a right way and there's a wrong way, and I'm here to help course creators actually succeed with all nine courses.

Hi, I'm Jacques Hopkins, and this is the online course show.

And off we go. Welcome aboard. Glad you're with us. This is the online course show. I'm your host Shak Hopkins here with me as our cohost David. Cozy.

David Krohse: Hey, what's up

Jacques Hopkins: And we're excited to dive into all things online courses with you today. David, what's up? Welcome to episode 130 thank you. We are going to be talking all things video today, which Hey, video is really important as far as online courses go.

David Krohse: Yeah, for sure.

Jacques Hopkins: It's been, it's pretty rare you come across a course that isn't video based video focus. I think one time throughout these hundred 2,930 episodes, I talked to a person that had a text based course. It was about men's fashion, Tanner Ngozi, and it was working for him, but to me like text based information conveying is more mid for a book and courses are better with.

Presented with video, and so we're going to get into a lot of video things today that the. Person that I had come on the interview that we'll be sharing it a little bit, is an expert in video production side. She's got this really great framework that we'll talk about, so I'm excited to get into that.

But for now, I want to get into our second installment of win of the week. I love, I love this segment. We did our first one last week. And what this is, is we're inviting listeners to go ahead and leave us an audio message with a recent win about their online course. Did you just have a great launch? Did you just tell your very first copy of your online course?

What is it that has been just a win for you here recently with your own online course? And in this case, we have a wind from Leon Turetsky and he's talking about a recent launch that he did. That went really, really well. So without further ado, let's go ahead and play this week. Win of the week.

Hello Leon Turetsky here, and I wanted to share my quick win. This is for a new company that I started about two years ago. I back intelligence.com where we help people to manage their backpack from home as well as help them. To correct our posture, and I work with other doctors, chiropractors, and stuff like that to bring the best articles and videos and information in that niche.

And so this swam is for a launch that I recently did for my only course, my only paid course at this moment, which is the complete posture fix course. This third time around, we did a $29,000 in sales, so about 150 students enrolled. And that's a massive jump from the second time that I launched, which was only about 37 students enrolled.

So obviously I'm very happy with that. The way I launch it, just to be clear, this is only the third time that I ever launched this course. So one of the things that I did, and I tested a lot of things and improved the funnel throughout, but one of the things that I did was kind of a hybrid webinar where it wasn't evergreen.

It wasn't live either. It was a free recorded webinar that I made available to be watched only for five days. So people still had to register to the webinar, but they could only watch it with day five days. So there were specific days they could watch it, and then after that they couldn't watch it anymore.

So there was a lot more flexibility for them to watch the webinar when they want it. So I think that definitely helps. Besides that, we also had an email sequence that really helps sell the course. But I think the biggest thing is that. We have the best content in the space, and I think a lot of the people will are already presold, and I think not enough people talk about that, that your content has to be so good that people already are pre-sold even before the webinar.

All right. So thanks so much to Leon for providing that. if you guys want to share a win with us and potentially get featured on an upcoming episode, head to the online course, guy.com/win and we'd love to hear from you and your story and your recent win. So, David, what'd you think about this? this little story, this recent launch from Leon?

David Krohse: Oh my gosh. I mean, a $29,000 launch not raises eyebrows. I mean, that'd be a really exciting five day period, or it sounds like it was five days, so. Love hearing that. I also felt like maybe as a chiropractor myself, I need to reach out to him and be like, Hey man, what's, where's my affiliate link? But no, I'm a total posture geek, so I love, I love anybody that's getting people to stand up straight.
I tell every patient that comes in, every kid, I'm like, you gotta be the most cocky and confident looking person in the room. Like look like you own any building that you're in. So love, posture, and loved hearing that success. Okay. I'm

Jacques Hopkins: Going to stand up. I'm going to stand up a little straighter right now.

So you're not judging me. You know, we do this on video, but most people listen to this on audio. But yeah, it was, it was great to hear. I don't know that I've ever done a launch, a single launch quite so high myself. I'm, I'm bigger on just overall evergreen and consistency, but for a lot of people, they like just doing the big launches over and over again.

And for Leon, this was his second launch for this product. Now. Keep in mind too. Leon has actually been on the podcast and what he's most known for is dance instructor and him, and when I interviewed him a couple of years ago on a very early episode, all he had was his dancing courses. And now, you know, this is a totally different niche for him, but it seems to be going well and it seems like he's working with the right people to write.

He mentioned doctors and chiropractors. He's obviously not working with quite the right chiropractor. But you know, $29,000 launch 150 new students, and he mentioned this like hybrid webinar approach. That was very interesting. It's, it was a, it was a live launch with a prerecorded webinar that was only available for a certain number of days.

Thought that was a cool approach. Definitely. And this quote really jumped out at me though. You mentioned it right at the end. Content. You want to have content so good that people are pre-sold even before the webinar, and I think that's true, right? I think a lot of the selling. That happens on a webinar can be done beforehand, and just the image that you're putting out there, you're the brand that you're putting out there.

And I, I did two live webinars here very recently, so we're recording this on a Tuesday, on Sunday night and Monday morning I just did two live webinars, and it's, it's funny, like once you give people the ability to buy, that's when all my sales came in. 95% of the sales came in. Right then. And then I still hung on the webinar for like another hour, just answering questions, getting through objections, and only like 5% of the sales came after that.

So I really feel like the people that we're going to buy, we're just kind of ready to buy even at the beginning of the webinar.

David Krohse: Well, I actually jumped on a little bit of the webinar that you did in the evening and you had like 180 people on there. So like, can you tell us any numbers of how many signups you got between your two webinars and.

You're, how are you having a record month or what's going on?

Jacques Hopkins: Yes, I'm having a record month. Yeah, so it's, we're almost halfway through April when we're recording this, and March was definitely the best, the best month I've ever had in terms of revenue for, for my online piano course. We're just about halfway through.

April and I'm about to break it already. Awesome. It's just a really, really good time for, for my course. Other courses are struggling right now, but with people staying home and just wanting to learn new things and whatnot, people are coming to piano plus this, this relaunch that I'm doing right now with the.

With the live webinars certainly contributed to that. So on Sunday and Monday, both of those days were were five figure days to back to back. And I've never, I've never had a five figure day ever because I'm more, you know, steady spread out evergreen approach. So they went really well. Sunday nights, there was about 180 people on Monday morning was about 240 people on

Yeah, and I did run ads. I spent about $2,000 in Facebook ads to, to kind of bump up the, the, the amount of people going. So I relaunched to my email list, plus I had new people come in through Facebook ads and I ended up selling about 25 copies of. My ultimate package. I only showed my ultimate package, which is the four 97 package on it, so about 25 copies between the two.

And then of course, when you do a live webinar, you don't want to just sell on the webinar. I've got my email followup sequences coming up as well, so it was really well received for the most part. They, there were certainly some trolls in the comment section, and my assistant, Emily, did a fantastic job on moderating the chat at booting the people that were just.

A little too, just a little too aggravating to the other people in there that, that actually wanted to be there.

David Krohse: Yeah. And so I was actually, I mean, I jumped on that webinar on Sunday evening and the comment feed was funny, but essentially. What I saw is just there was this group of people that just wanted you to instantly start to teach and you were telling your stories, your backstory, the stories that, that basically highlight why your way of learning piano are so valuable.

And they're like, just get to the teaching and like, but what was really cool is the people that are your fans would actually like, would say, Hey, shut up. And if you don't want to hear him talk about this, just leave, you know, not Emily, it was these other people were like coming to your events. And just saying, Hey, this is really cool.

And they're like, yeah, people would be like, no, I felt the same way. So I really enjoyed just watching the comment feed and I thought thought it was really awesome.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. I've never done webinars, but so many people in it, and so the comment feed was just flying by like right at the beginning. I always ask people like, Hey, where are you located?

And like there were, there were, the comments were going so quickly. It was so hard for me to even keep up and read them, but it was really cool. It was really cool that I'm just sitting there. My, you know, the rest of my family is asleep on a Sunday night and I'm just communicating with a couple of hundred people over live video.

And they actually thought enough of the presentation and my work to pull out their money and actually buy a product from me from me. It was really cool, but you can't, you can't just get straight into the teaching. It's a, it just doesn't work like that. Like my story as it relates to piano. Is so important to the brand of piano in 21 days and so important to you as a student if you're going to learn piano from me because I struggled with piano probably more than more than almost anybody out there.

Like I, I, I struggled so much with it. And that's. Because I struggled so much. That's what's made me passionate about helping people get through those struggles. And so yeah, some people grew up and took piano lessons for a year and then it fizzled out. But for me, it was like 12 years of hatred with the piano and barely learning anything.

And so I've got to go like it takes a good 30 40 minutes to tell my story, read some of the testimonials, tell some, tell some stories from some of my students and how it's not just me that. Was able to get through this and find a better way, but, but people all over the world are doing it too. So once you're properly framed with that in your head, then I'll get into some of the teaching, some of the showing of, of these tactics on the keyboard.

And so the combination of my story, other stories add then me actually showing you on the keyboard how simple it can be. Then the sale for a lot of people as a no brainer.

David Krohse: Well up here. I'm excited to report that I, sold two courses

Jacques Hopkins: This week, so.

David Krohse: I did a little bit of a discount just because I know that so many chiropractors are, are in really hard financial times.

Some of them have been shut down completely, but now it's really exciting. So three 97 a piece, and I did a launch to my list and so it's going to end tonight at 11. So who knows, maybe I'll get another sale or two. But yeah, that was exciting.

Jacques Hopkins: Maybe so congratulations on that, David. So you teach people, primarily, you teach chiropractors and, and now I know you're branching out to other service professionals to get more business, get more clients, primarily through lunch and learns, which normally happen in person.

So are you teaching people now to kind of do lunch and learns virtually? Or why are people actually buying your course right now?

David Krohse: Well, it's just this expectation that when we come out of hibernation quarantine mode. These chiropractors are going to have to have to find ways to, to Mark it. So I sent out a video this morning.

We did have a health fair that was supposed to happen during the month of April and the, our contact at the company, she reached out and she scheduled it for June 30th so like, I sent this email at this morning and just said, Hey, you know, these companies are still planning on having people come in there.

They're looking forward to coming out of this thing on the other side. And so. And then also I have some other things built into my program that just provide value where chiropractors can educate. Each individual new patient that comes in, some specific strategies for that. So I have emphasized that it's,

Jacques Hopkins: Very cool and I think providing a little bit of a discount, it's probably a good idea in your case in general, I don't recommend that.

I'm not discounting my piano course right now, but it's also a really good time for people to sit down and learn how to play piano. But for you, I would imagine, you know, the couple of people that bought, hopefully you get a couple more today. Are thinking, well, I need to have a system ready to go for when we get out of this, but instead of waiting to buy your program, then, Hey, Dave is offering a discount right now, so let me go ahead and get it and I'll be ready to go when we get out of this.

That's the plan. And I, and I, you know, Nate Dodson kind of did a similar thing. You know, he was on the wind of the week last week, but I know he, before he did the huge pivot with the home delivery once we were just getting into this stuff, he did offer a discount to people for his course. So maybe that's a, that's something to try for people out there listening who are struggling to make core sales because of your particular niche right now is to consider offering a discount so that people want to buy now and then use it in a few months.

Love it, man. Okay, well let's talk a video. All right. I had Demelza Marie, come on. She knows a thing or two about video, so we'll talk about it a little bit on the backside of this conversation, but for now, let's go ahead and get into the full conversation with Demelza right now. Hey there. Demelza welcome to the online course show.

Demelza Marie: Hey, it's great to be here. Thank you.

Jacques Hopkins: Absolutely. I'm excited to talk about video and video production with you here today. I know you do have an online course and we'll get into that a little bit, but I hope that this conversation can be really jam packed for the listeners on improving their overall, I guess, video quality.

How does that sound?

Demelza Marie: It sounds great. I'm really eager to help people to improve their quality video so that they can make a bigger impact.

Jacques Hopkins: Why do you think that. Good video quality is so important.

Demelza Marie: I think it's, it's quite well known in the online course space is a really growing area and so more and more people are getting into online courses and in order to stand out, I think it's important to have quality video because it's going to set you apart from the many other courses that are going to be out there.

If you are going to go to, if you're a customer and you're going to look at. Various piano courses, for example, and you've got a choice of two or three different versions that you could choose from. You're going to choose the one that looks the most professional because you're going to assume that that has the best content.

So whether it is true or not, the production quality gives that credibility to your content, that lack of production quality, just it can, it can undermine that.

Jacques Hopkins: Is it possible to overcome poor quality, poor, poor production quality with great content?

Demelza Marie: I think so, but people aren't necessarily going to get to the content if the barrier at the beginning is the production quality, so it's just like a storefront window if you like.

If you are, especially with your marketing videos or your content videos, it lacks a certain professional quality. People aren't necessarily going to assume that the content is as good, but if you built a warm audience, they're going to know that it's good because they're going to have fun, that they, they're going to have experience with your content, but for people who are just new to you and don't know you very well, and if you don't have that good production quality, I think they're going to make assumptions, which are necessarily correct.

Just like we say, don't judge the book by cover, but the same would apply for, I think, video production

Jacques Hopkins: Quality too. Yeah, sure. And more and more people are putting videos out there, whether it's on YouTube or Facebook or within, you know, within the walls of an online course. And I know for me, I judge pretty quickly whether I think this video is going to be good or not, because if it's really well produced, I'm more likely to stick around.

Now, I think. What, what is really, really great is when you have both the production quality as well as the amazing content. And I feel like with let's, you know, take piano in 21 days, for example. I think the, the content is pretty much always been there, but the quality has it, right? My very first video on YouTube, people can go find it back in 2013 my keyboards crooked.

It's literally a thunderstorm outside. You only see the overhead shot. You don't see me on camera, but the content was good. Therefore it got, it's probably got 200,000 views cause it, it was, it was really good content, but a very, I made a very similar video a few years later that was very similar content, much better production quality over a million views.

So I think that combination is, is really important. Now, let's get into like, specifically. Who w like what type of people that you help and what do you help them most with? Because you've got a really interesting niche here of a video quality, but specifically how are you helping people?

Demelza Marie: My focus is helping online course creators and coaches to produce quality video lessons.

So obviously the lessons are within the course section itself, but also the content that goes with that in order to get people into your courses. And so it is very much focused on. Lesson based videos.

Jacques Hopkins: Okay. So when somebody is somebody coming to me and they're on the course creation side of things, and most people, when they're making an online course, the content is delivered in video format.

I mean, every once in a while you come across like text base courses. But when I, when I see that, I'm like, well, this, this is just a book. Like what? What? Well, what are we doing here? So. Once somebody decides to make a video based online course, right? What, what does that and what should that look like?

Because there's so many options. You can have the person on camera interacting with their thing. You could do slides, combination of the two. You could do screencast videos. What do you recommend.

Demelza Marie: I think it depends on the content that you're sharing, because there's certainly, if you're doing something like teaching something on software or something like that, then it makes sense to do a screencast, right?

And show your screen. But I also think that even if you're doing that, it's important to include, at least at times. Your cell phone camera because you want to build that connection with your audience. You want to build rapport with them, and you can really do that a lot better if you're on camera and you can see them and see that body language and all that kind of thing.

If it's just a talking voice in the background, then you don't connect in the same way. So I think it's really important, at least at some stage during your course or during your content that you actually show yourself on the screen.

Jacques Hopkins: Okay. I couldn't agree more, and that's one of my pet peeves when I'm taking other online courses, it's like, I want to see what this guy is looking like right now.

Like when I'm learning something, I want to see you actually teaching me whether you just pop in here and there or, or all the time, you know, with, with my piano course, I pretty much have to be on camera all the time because you have to see me interacting with my piano. But with. Online course training, for example, which is my other business.

This, we have what we're talking about right here. It's mostly like slides and screen shares, but you know, I like that it's still show myself every now and then. So it sounds like we, we agree there. All right, so. What are some, what are some big mistakes you see when you're going through the internet and courses or marketing videos?

What are some of the biggest mistakes that you see out there?

Demelza Marie: I think people don't take into account lighting as much as they should. I think people tend to focus a lot more on the camera and the equipment, not necessarily how to use it. So I actually have this framework that I use, which is called like, I basically call it a leasee.

L a, C, E, Y, and that goes into lighting, audio, camera editing and yourself. And if you take into account all those different aspects of the production, then you're going to produce a much better quality video. I think if you're just focused on, basically stick the camera where it naturally goes. For example, if it's a laptop, you're looking down at it, or if it's a desktop, you might be looking up, and if you're not thinking about your lighting and all those kinds of things, or your audio quality, then you're gonna.

Your production quality is going to suffer.

Jacques Hopkins: Okay. I love this. I love frameworks, and so it's called the Lacy framework, so why don't we take . One of those at a time, so everybody really understands this and that this, is this something that you got from somebody else or is this something you came up with this Lacy framework?

Demelza Marie: Yeah, this is my framework and yeah, I just use that. It sounds a bit strange, I guess. Does it get all at Lacy because it's like maybe thinking of. Crochet or whatever, you know, the kind of, that kind of thing. It helps to remember that all the different things that you need to remember when you actually come to production, if it's something as simple as a word to remember.

So yeah, so lighting is one of the first things to look at, and that actually has a bigger impact on the quality of the video. Then probably most of the other things, because if the lighting is bad, you can't see you and the shadows are bad on your face, or you can't see what it is that you're demonstrating, then it's really going to impact on the ability to communicate what it is that you're teaching or just build that connection with somebody.

So when it comes to lighting, you really want to think about having the light in front of you. You don't want the light source above because that's going to cause weird shadows on your face. You don't want it from below because again, like if you were using a lamp on a table is going to cause really, really weird shadows on your face cause you're not used to having the lights coming from a lower light.

And I would light source if you like. So it's best to either use natural lights or to use a studio light, but make sure that it's facing you so that you're getting the best quality of light on you. And the same would apply on your subjects.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. By the way, I like the, the name Lacey framework because if we could take this whole thing a step further, but you know, stick with me a second.

Demelza one. One struggle I see people having is actually teaching into a camera as opposed to to, to a person or to an audience. And so one thing I tell people to do is think of your customer avatar. Right? Who, who is your ideal customer? And picture them, you know, give, give them a name, John, Sally, whatever, and picture them as your Cameron, you know, put up a picture of them right behind your camera if necessary.

Now what we can do, since we've had this conversation, is everybody out there can name their camera Lacey, right? As in, that's the name, right? Cause that's a girl's name, Lacey. And then that'll all sort of minus of the Lacy framework. Look. Where Mike making progress right here on the podcast. So the first letter,L stands for lighting.

And I gotta tell you, I struggled with lighting for a long time. I feel pretty good about my lighting in here now. But I feel like it's, it can be a challenge for those that don't have a lot of experience with photography. Videography. Do you, I mean, besides what you've already said, do you have any simple tips to help people get lighting right the first time?

Demelza Marie: I find it easier to use studio lights because you're not relying on the. Variety of weather issues that can happen

Jacques Hopkins: And the time of day.

Demelza Marie: The time of day. Exactly. So in the UK, which is where I'm based, the weather, we get lots of cloud coverage and so the sun can come out and the sun can go back behind the clouds. And then you're getting all this variance of lighting difference.

And again, if you're having to. Shoot your videos at night or something. You obviously can't use natural light. So I like the flexibility of using studio lights and it doesn't have to be expensive. The easiest one to use is potentially the ring lights because you just basically set that up right in front of you and you put a camera in the middle and it.

Basically that lights you evenly around your face and gives you a good light. It's a little bit flat, so some people don't like that kind of lighting, but it's the easiest light and it doesn't take up much space. Another option is to use softboxes. That's what I'm using right now, so I have it just slightly off at about a 45 degree angle.

And I just use the one light and it's lighting me pretty well right now. And then it gives a little bit more console to your face so that it gives a little bit more shape.

So I've, I've used softboxes before. What I found about those is they're big and clunky. Hard to store, right? So I've graduated to, I don't, it's called like an

Jacques Hopkins: Led panel maybe, is that the right word for it? And I really, I really like those. And so I've got one at my 45 over here and I've got one at my 45 over here, and another one kind of behind me as well. How would you say that my lighting is looking right now?

Demelza Marie: It's looking good. And what you're doing is basically, it's called a three point lighting setup, so you're having your key lights.

Which is your main light, if you like. And then you've got your second light that you mentioned, which is your fill light, which is giving, filling in the shadow so that it's not so intense. The shadows. And then you mentioned the light it back, which is helping you give, it's got a background, right? Or you could use a hairlight.

So what I've got right now is a light which basically separates you from the background and gives you a little bit more dimension as well. So I mean. You want to go into a really good setup. That is a setup to go with, because the three point lighting is classic, but if you just want to keep things very simple, then I would say that to start with probably just one light.

Pretty much in front of you or just off your 45 degree angle would probably be the best place to start.

Okay, very nice. And see, there's a technical term, three point lighting. I didn't even know I was doing it, but thank you for your confirmation there that I've got something going on right here and yeah, I really liked these led panels.

I haven't here. They're not super expensive and there's so much easier to move around and to store than the old softboxes I had. So I will provide a link to the ones that I use and that I've been using this for a couple of years now. I'll provide a link to these in the show notes. For this episode.

Jacques Hopkins: Let's move on to the second letter of the amazing Lacy framework. Hey, what does a stand for?

Demelza Marie: So a is for audience, and I think a lot of people, when they think about video production, they're focused very much on the visuals, and audio gets neglected a bit. I think this is a mistake because actually people tolerate bad.

Video. Sorry. Is this the right way? It's all right. Bad video more than they tolerate bad audio.

Jacques Hopkins: Yes, I agreed. So

Demelza Marie: If you're going to learn on a video and the audio is bad, people will go right off and they won't even hear your contents no matter how good it is. So. It's really important to, I think, get an external microphone to make sure that you're getting good quality audio, whether you're using your phone or webcam or DSLR, it doesn't really matter.

Those onboard cameras, those onboard Mike's aren't as good quality as using an external microphone. Yeah.

Jacques Hopkins: I always tell people that the secret to great video is great audio. It sounds like you agree with me there, and at the very least, like you said, people should have some sort of external microphone and don't rely to what's ever built in, I believe.

I don't know what you think, but I believe people can fill entire courses just from their phone. But I like to have people at least get a $20 lapel or lavalier mic off of Amazon and attach it to that phone so that we'll have that HD video coming from the phone. But then we'll also have amazing audio cause you have something right by your voice.

And that's, that's another thing I did wrong at the beginning is I was relying on, I think it was recording my first videos just on my webcam and I thought I was doing something great because my webcam had. 10 80 P H D and all this, but it did not have a great microphone. So once again, if you go back to that video from 2013 you know it's technically HD video, but you can definitely tell the audio is, is horrible.

So I am fully on board with the LNA so far. Let's get into C.

Demelza Marie: Yeah, just a an adult on that. If you're going to invest in anything to start with. When it comes to production equipment, I would say that the audio is probably the first place to invest because you can use your phone as a camera, for example, and you don't have to go out and get the DSLR or whatever it is to start with.

You can definitely use your phone and cheap microphone and that would be a good startup setup.

Jacques Hopkins: Great. Let's get into C.

Demelza Marie: So C is camera, and I think just as I mentioned just now, you can use your phone very often. If you've got a smartphone that does video, then I would go ahead and start with that if you're just getting started, because sometimes we can get so bogged down in the technicalities of some of the higher end equipment.

So for example, if you've never used a DSLR and you're going to go out and get that, then you can get so bogged down into how that works. Without . As you mentioned before, content is the most important thing in terms of delivering good content production is to back that up and the phone is a good enough quality to be able to do that.

And like first course was actually using my phone and using external microphones and lighting and that kind of thing. But the phone can do a good enough job. I think also when it comes to camera, you want to make sure your angles are good, so don't just use the camera angle. That seems. Obvious. For example, if you're using a laptop and you're looking down at the laptop, that's not a good angle because a it, you know, if you a double chin look and people are looking up your nostrils, which isn't that attractive either.

And if you're looking up as well, it can, it's probably a better look, which is why a lot of people hold their cameras up high. So as they're looking up, because . Makes you look slimmer and that kind of thing. But again, I think another thing people don't consider, especially when it comes to educational videos, is that we want to build that connection and rapport, which happens best when it's on a peer to peer level.

And if you are looking up at somebody. And they're looking down on you. There's going to be a sense of superiority in terms of your student feeling more superior to you, which you don't want when you're teaching them. You know the content and vice versa. If you're looking down on them again, they might feel inferior and that you are superior to them and you don't want them to feel that kind of emotion.

You want them to feel positive. So it may be very subliminal. And they may not even think about it, but those kinds of things are potential setbacks in terms of your ability to communicate very

Jacques Hopkins: Effectively. Never would have thought about that. Demelza so you recommend kind of more of a straight on shot when we're doing educational videos?

Demelza Marie: I would say eye level or just slightly above, because like I said, the visually you look better with, it's slightly above the button, not, not very high. I would say eye level.

Jacques Hopkins: Now, if you're, if you are in, like if you are trying to have that dominant position may be more like a sales video. Would you apply that and say, okay, let me look down at my audience for that type of video versus educational, or am I looking too into it a little too far?

Demelza Marie: Well, it depends what kind of, how you want to come across from me. I want to come across very much, Hey, we're sitting over coffee and you're my friend and I want to help you out with whatever it is that you're helping out with. So that's my style. That's my brand, if you like. I don't want to come across as domineering or as superior.

I want to be able to make that connection. So I feel like from me, all of my content should be eye-level and that we are on the same level.

Jacques Hopkins: Okay. Very, very cool. All right, let's move on with the letters here. I think we're on E tell us about E.

Demelza Marie: Say he is editing. And one of the things I think we don't think about when it comes to editing is that it's a good idea to pre edit in our minds before we actually get to the editing suite.

And by that I mean thinking about what you're going to be filming and how you're going to film it. So for example, if you are recording a lot of demonstrated. Type videos. So if you're in the creative space or anything like that and you're gonna be demonstrating things and it's a really good idea to think ahead of the kind of B roll, which is basically the visuals that you see on screen ahead of time so that you make sure you get everything that you want and that you don't get to editing and realize, Oh no, I haven't got that element that I wanted to demonstrate or to show.

And by thinking ahead, that can really save a whole lot of time when it comes to production and as a team as well.

Jacques Hopkins: Now, do you recommend people edit video themselves when they're starting out or or hire somebody to edit videos for them?

Demelza Marie: I think it really depends on the individual and obviously financial options as well.

I think there's a sense in which it's nice to be able to do it yourself because you have the control over how it looks, but also if you don't know. What you're doing and you don't know how to get that look. It might be better to outsource, so I don't recommend spending hours on editing. I think it's important to keep it simple and just do pretty much straight cuts for most of it, because even even most movies, most of the edits are actually just straight cuts from one scene to another.

If you're incorporating a lot of transitions, these fancy transitions at actually. Makes your videos look a bit more tacky, so you don't actually want to use a lot of those elements that come with some of the editing software. The advantage to having more expensive software, you can look at color grading and you can look at more sophisticated editing in terms of making the image and a sound look better.

Image look better on the sound, sound better, but even basic equipment can do the basic cuts and get your sequence in order.

Jacques Hopkins: That's one of the things that, one of the skills I had to learn early on in and have running an online course business was video editing. I had never had to do that before, and obviously that's it.

That's an integral part of having an online course is being able to produce these videos. And so I learned video editing. At first, I think I was using Kim T Camtasia, and then eventually I switched to premiere pro, and then eventually I switched to outsourcing it completely to an actual video editor, and I wish I would have outsourced.

That sooner because you can, I mean, you can find amazing people for as little as like, you know, $10 an hour that are happy to get the work that can do a better job than you. And I think, I think my time could have been spit better elsewhere, but at the same time, you'll find people getting into this, that end up just thoroughly enjoying the video editing piece.

And I was probably somewhere more in the middle, but I guess if it's something that brings you joy, then then maybe stick with it. But I would, I would invite people out there to consider outsourcing. If it's right for you.

Demelza Marie: No, I agree. If it takes a lot of time and it's not something you're enjoying and getting anything out, then outsource if you can.

But if it's something that you can do, there were definitely tips and tricks to make it a lot quicker. So that doesn't take up a whole lot of time.

Jacques Hopkins: Okay. So we've got one more, but where we are right now, as you said that we have lighting, we have audio, we have camera, and we have editing. So we've got, we've got the, we've got what's capturing the video so far?

We've got what's capturing the audio. We've got the lighting of, of, of everything, and then actually editing the videos. So it would seem that the, that there's only one thing left and that's, that's you and your presence on camera. And I think that's what the Y stands for. So tell us about that.

Demelza Marie: So, yeah, I mean, you can have great production quality and everything like that, but then there's you and you at the focus when you are communicating your content.

So I think it's really important to a lot of practice in, into making sure that you're coming across well. I think that we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be good on camera right away without practice, without experience, and with anything that we've done. We've got good at it because we've had experience and we've practiced.

And the same is going to be true with being on camera. So I encourage people to, one of the first things to do is to really get, start getting confident on camera and start practicing and to practice every day. Just talk to the camera like you would a friend. You didn't even have to push record. Just. Get used to talking to a camera lens because that's not something that comes naturally because there's no feedback.

There's no body language, there's nothing, and it's very weird to talk to a camera. So I think just getting to the point where you're used to talking to the camera, even just summarizing your day or something simple like that can actually just be that breaking down the barrier of actually talking to an inanimate object.

Jacques Hopkins: Well, ground, groundbreaking advice here. News flash to get better at something, we have to practice everybody. But, but that's, I mean, I once heard somebody say like, if you want to get better at waking up early, like if you want to start waking up at 5:00 AM like you have to literally practice like hearing, hearing the tone of your alarm and like literally getting out of bed.

Like it's amazing how when you're not good at something. All you have to do is practice it. And so what you're saying is if somebody out there is not feeling very confident on camera, well you may just not have done it enough. Right? So just practice as much as you can.

Demelza Marie: Yeah, that's a lot of it. I also have a course, a confidence on camera course, which is a 30 day bootcamp that in order to help actually move people from feeling like they're, you know, struggling feeling awkward on camera to the point where hopefully they're feeling a lot more confidence in their presentation and everything like that.

But, whatever you do, whether it's a course or not, I think the main key is you need to practice actually. How you're going to come across and your presentation style and that kind of thing.

Jacques Hopkins: So of these five areas of your framework, where would you, where do you think people are struggling the most?

Demelza Marie: I would say lighting would be one of the big ones.

I see a lot of people doing the camera angles wrong, you know, they're using whatever is available rather than thinking through how it comes across looking good. And. And sometimes the, the audio, I mean, it's hard to pick one really. Yeah. But it's, it's something that we never used to have to do. I mean, video production was limited originally to, you know, video production studios.

But with YouTube and social media as it is, it's become available to everyone. But not everybody has had the training and the experience to know what actually makes something look good. So I think. Yeah. Like I said, we have that expectation on ourselves that we're supposed to be able to produce this great content without actually having any experience.

Jacques Hopkins: Now I'm going to get into the weeds a good bit with this next question, but looking forward, do you think that we should be recording our videos and like for K or is is like regular high definition? 10 80 okay. For now.

Demelza Marie: That's a hard question to answer in some ways because I would say for right now, I would stick with 10 80 because it fourK is expensive.

You've got to get an upgrade all equipment for starters, and then it's that much more extra memory on your hard drive space. So you need extra hard drive space. You needed extra memory for your computer to be able to process everything. So it's a lot more expensive to go forK and so. With the fact that everything is still very much 10 80 HD compatible at the moment.

I would say stick with 10 80 unless you have the financial resources and the capabilities to go to. Okay. In which case take advantage of that because it will be ultimately go in that way.

Jacques Hopkins: Got it. So you mentioned a course of yours a little while ago, confidence on camera. Is that your only course at the moment or do you have other courses related to video production?

Demelza Marie: Yeah. I have, another course called teach with video, which is my main course, which takes you through the process of pre production and getting everything planned out so that it can, you can save time ultimately through the production process, how to do the lighting, the audio, the camera, all that kind of thing.

And then also editing tips to make it faster.

Jacques Hopkins: So where can people find out more information about those two courses?

Demelza Marie: So I have a website which is Demelza marie.com so both of those courses will be on there. And also I have a couple of free options people can check out as well though, which is a seven powerful on camera secrets that every course creator should know.

So if you feel like you're not very confident on camera, that would be a good resource. And also for those who are looking for a production. A framework, which is basically what we talked about and the course creators, blueprints, recording video lessons, plus the recording checklist is also on there, so you can check those out too.

Jacques Hopkins: Amazing. All right. Last question for you. So as a course creator yourself, and obviously as a a video production expert, what advice do you have for those? Just getting started with online courses.

Demelza Marie: Well, I would say that the first thing you want to do is find somebody who has gone before you and start modeling what they're doing because it's.

Jacques Hopkins: It's hard to figure everything out.

Demelza Marie: So yeah, I mean, when I started with my video courses and that kind of thing, I was basically thinking, this is a great idea. Let me just go ahead and do it. And I didn't do my research and I've taken the long rig. Basically. I have spent way, way more time trying to figure it out, all that by myself, rather than going to somebody who knows what they're doing and getting the shortcut process.

So that would be. If I could wind back the clock and do it all over again, that's what I would do is find somebody who can guide through the process in what order to do things and that kind of thing.

Jacques Hopkins: Excellent, and you said that your stuff is [email protected] yes. Okay. Demelza Demelza marie.com thank you so much for your time today.

All right. That's a wrap with a conversation with Demelza. David, welcome back. Thank you. All right, man. So this was, this was fun. It's a good reminder about the things too, to keep in mind when we're recording videos as, as course creators or as, you know, putting videos on YouTube marketing videos, and I just loved the Lacey framework.

I love simplicity and it just makes so much sense to me. There's often times where I'll kind of turn on the camera and I'll just like forget one thing when maybe I'm recording from the wrong. Microphone or something. You know, I've done that before. And so it's, it's good to keep in mind. So just a quick recap.

Lacy stands for lighting, audio, camera editing, and yourself. I think it's brilliant. What do you think about that?

David Krohse: I thought it was great. And yeah, I mean, I would say looking back, like I. I kind of took the long route. I did some trial and error and I just record a video and then look at it afterwards and be like, this is terrible.

And so I really think that Demelza provides a lot of value by, by in a quick way, getting people better strategies to come out with great video.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. And I'm all about like upleveling your, your game. Slowly over time. And so when you first start out making videos, you don't have to have the best lighting, the best audio, the best editor, and so on.

Like let's start budget at first, gets your basic lighting, some cheap lights, a $20 lapel microphone. Use your cameras, your, your, your phone's camera, edit the videos yourself and so on. And then when you start making a little money from your videos or from your course. Then start upgrading one thing at a time.

Don't be like, okay, now I'm going to go ahead and do an upgrade and do everything at once. When you do a bunch of things at once, then it could start to fail on you because you're trying to do too much at once, so then, you know, maybe buy some more expensive lights or buy a more expensive camera, but do one at a time.

That's what I would recommend.

David Krohse: Definitely. As I was listening, I did have a couple of like tools that I just wanted to mention. I know that you usually. You're all about different tools, and so I was kind of surprised. He didn't ask like, what are your favorite things? The one that I would mention for audio, let's see here, Paul, or is it Lipski?

Jacques Hopkins: Paul Lipski.

David Krohse: Yup. Paul Lipski. He recommended this program called crisp, so that's K, R, I, S, P. and that's something that if you're trying to record outside or in anywhere where there's like ambient noise that would be picked up by your microphone. It just cuts that out. And I remember watching his demonstration of that and I, I watched a couple of other YouTube videos, but if you're finding that when you record, there's this kind of a low, low like drone, that's a great program to look into.
The other thing, recording with an iPhone, I know you switched to Android, but are, or maybe, did you ever use an iPhone?

Jacques Hopkins: I use an iPhone when they first came out years ago, but I've been on Android for quite awhile.

David Krohse: Okay, so an iPhone, getting a medium sized video file from your iPhone computer is like so exasperating.

And I remember I spent like hours trying to figure out the best way to do this. I had some rig thing with VLC. There's a really nice app called simple transfer for iPhone, and since I got that, now I'm using my iPhone 11 is like my main recording tool because it's just so slick and easy. And it's just effortless to get that video file from my phone to the computer, which like I said before, it was like if you have a small video, you can just transfer it with the USB cable, but USB to lightning cable.

But otherwise it was like, what am I supposed to do with this? It was so, so bizarre.

Jacques Hopkins: So I'm just, I'm not familiar with the iPhone and the app or world at all, but I know they have something called like iCloud, so the, the videos don't automatically go up to iCloud and then you can go to your computer and download them from there.

David Krohse: I think that's something you have to pay extra for. And I just never paid for it, so, no. But I'm talking about if you get to like a five 10 minute video, yeah. There's just not a straight forward way to transfer it. So this simple transfer app. Is super slick and really solve this problem. I've been loving it lately.

Jacques Hopkins: Great. Thanks for that recommendation. I know for me, you know, if there's any Android users listening out there, it is more of a streamlined, automated process, and I usually use Google photos, the Google photos app for that. So any photo and video that I take on my phone automatically gets uploaded to Google photos in the cloud, and then I can just download it.

From the Google photos app in my browser on my computer. So that's how I handle getting videos from my phone to my computer using Android and windows.

David Krohse: And speaking of just video quality, I mean, your videos that you're putting out on Facebook live, I mean they just like 10 out of 10 like what is your actual camera that you're using right now?

The higher end camera.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, so I'm using a Sony a 6,400 and you've got, you know, I mentioned upleveling, like I, this is what my fourth or fifth camera I started using, you know, I started doing online courses and stuff in 2013 I used a, a logic tech webcam back then, and then I got, you know, a slightly upgraded to some kind of camera.

Eventually I got a Canon rebel and now I'm up to a Sony, a 6,400 which is a, it's probably a $700 camera, but then you got it. You really. You need a good lens. One of the keys is a good lens, so it's probably a $300 a thousand dollars just camera set up going over here, but I certainly didn't start this way.

David Krohse: Yeah, well, it looks great. The other thing that I really got a, I was just thinking about is it really is hard to have a great energy when you're going into the videos. I know for my personal situation, I bought some softboxes, but ultimately what I found is that like if I want to have a good energy.

Essentially, I have this window where I can record a video, so it's from like nine 30 to 1230 in the morning and then I just like natural light better. And so I mainly recorded in this room that has natural light coming in. A lot of that is just having an energy that comes through on the video. And it was funny, I was going to mention the other day, so, so listeners know he's like jacket.

I can see the video of each other and right when Jack is getting ready to start doing this, you know. Off, we go the intro to the podcast, like I always get this big grin, and the other day he was like, dude, why do you always smile right before I start this thing? And I was like. I'm just trying to have a good energy so I smile.

Yeah. Having a good energy is hard.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. I thought, I thought you were like making fun of, or laughing at my intro, like the way I would read it. So eventually, you know, after 10 episodes, I'm like, David, why are you always just like laughing when I'm doing the intro and it turns out you're just trying to get the right energy for when I say.

And here with me is our co has David cozy and you know, and you, you want to, you want to be like, Hey guys, you know,

David Krohse: I'm trying.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. And you know that, that reminds me of something that James Wedmore said. Who's, who's big in the video space? Online courses. I learned a lot from him initially, very early on, 2013 2014 I took kind of a course from him on YouTube.

That he did with a company called creative live, and that's kind of the main way I got my feet wet with YouTube, was learning from him. And one of the things that really jumped out at me that he had said early on was, look, the camera takes about, takes away about 20% of your energy. So you have to almost go over the top when you're talking into a camera for you to come across as normal.

And so I have, I've taken that to heart throughout a lot of my videos, especially like YouTube videos and marketing videos. And I think that's really true. So keep that in mind that for whatever reason, the camera kinda sucks away like 20% of your energy. You almost have to just, you have to bring it up to about 120% so that you seem normal when you're watching back on the, on the video.

David Krohse: Definitely. Yeah. It's been a growth experience for me to really try to have good energy on videos and. Actually my most recent video that I put out on YouTube, if you go and watch it, I think it's just called like the story of back pain, but look up David Crosy on YouTube. I tried to put so much energy in this.

There's no way I could have done it a couple of years ago because it just took time. But my goal is that when I eventually released that on Facebook, it's going to be for my local community, just people that are dealing with back pain. But I expect the comments to be like, what kind of drugs is this guy on?

And where could I get them? Because I just, it's a funny video. Essentially there's a certain muscle down in the low back called the multifidus that if it's not working right, it's just a key problem in low back pain. And I got the steak and like put googly eyes on it to represent the multifidus muscles and just, just really tried to have this super high level of energy, but I can't wait to see people's comments on that.

Jacques Hopkins: Well, I can't wait to see that video, David. This, huh? Yeah. That sounds good. But, but w one thing you said was, this is not a video I would have been able to do. I wouldn't have been able to do it like this a couple of years ago. And I feel the same way about video. The videos I'm putting out there and my presentation of myself on video is far different today than it was two years ago, four years ago, six years ago.

I'm going to be even better two years from now. So I think the key takeaway is don't be scared. Just start, cause it's only gonna get better.

David Krohse: Well are you, are you pretty much done using a teleprompter entirely? I feel like you used to be pretty dependent on totally scripted.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, my teleprompter, honestly, David, my teleprompter doesn't fit very well with my new Sony camera.

There are times when a teleprompter is very handy, like when you're doing a 30 minute sales video or something to where you can really script it out ahead of time. So I do still feel like a teleprompter has a time and a place, but lately I have not been doing it. Mostly because I've been focused on more organic stuff and lives and things where a teleprompter wouldn't be handy, but I do need to figure out how to.

Either get my existing teleprompter working with this camera or maybe get a new teleprompter because I do plan to do teleprompter videos more in the future.

David Krohse: Gotcha. Well, based on what I see, I mean, I think, I think that you come across much better when you try to have a conversation.

Jacques Hopkins: Cool.

David Krohse: Obviously teleprompter can be done with the great energy, but sometimes it doesn't come across as natural.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah. And you know, if you call it some of my live webinar the other day, a lot of that I was reading from notes. So you gotta when you're reading from a teleprompter, you've got to come across as if you're not reading. So that is an art in of itself. All right, David. Well, this has been a fun conversation about video and other things.

Thanks so much for joining me for another episode and thanks to everybody out there for listening to yet another episode of the online course show, and thanks to Demelza for joining us and talking a little video with us as well. For all the notes and links from today's episode, you can find the show notes by going to the online course.

Guy.com/one 30 and don't forget about our new win of the week segment. We really want you guys to participate in that and no matter how small the win is, we potentially want to share it if it can inspire and motivate other people. So if you want to participate in that record, a short audio message for us about a recent win, make sure you head to the online course guy.com/win w I n.

Thanks again everyone. We'll talk next week.