If you are new to the online course world, you’ve probably been wondering if a platform like Udemy could be a good place to start. There’s probably no one-size-fits-all answer on, but my guest today had some great insights that are definitely worth considering. Tracy Goodwin is a successful course creator who specialized in helping people get their message across more effectively. It was great to hear her perspective on all things online course-related and to learn what has worked best for her.

“Give yourself a little bit more credit than you might be giving yourself… someone out there is waiting for your message.”

– Tracy Goodwin

I couldn’t have said it better myself! And I hope you enjoy listening in on our conversation!

In This Episode, We Talked About: 

  • (2:34) An update from David
  • (4:27) Potential new course creators – in my own family!
  • (6:28) How things are going for me and my business right now
  • (9:19) The key components of a successful course
  • (10:41) How my wife and I will be celebrating a new milestone
  • (11:24) Shoutouts, the Win of the Week, and a cool story
  • (15:50) Introducing Tracy Goodwin
  • (16:24) Who Tracy helps and how she does it
  • (20:39) Her online course journey and early wins
  • (22:47) The differences in our stories
  • (24:11) Price point considerations and leaving Udemy
  • (27:20) How Tracy now sells her courses
  • (28:56) Unusual ways Tracy gets her traffic
  • (30:16) What gets her more excited: course sales or coaching?
  • (32:14) Coaches, mentors, and the value of outside help
  • (35:30) The opportunities that Tracy has created with her online course business
  • (36:37) What Tracy would do differently if she was starting over
  • (38:48) Her favorite tools
  • (40:27) Tracy’s tips for new and aspiring course creators
  • (42.35) Where to find Tracy online
  • (43:06) My and David’s thoughts on Tracy’s experience with Udemy
  • (47:01) Phone sales, impact on family, and other observations from the interview
  • (48:58) The cautionary tale of Elizabeth Holmes
  • (52:33) Wrapping up

That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show.

Jacques Hopkins: Click funnels is one of my go to tools because it does so many things so well. Obviously it does sales funnels and it's amazing at that. It also has wonderful order forms. I host all of my courses there and I've never had any problems with that. It's an amazing tool. If you're a course creator and I want to empower you to use it properly by giving you some really cool things when you sign up using the link I'm about to share with you, I'm going to give you all of the templates that I'm using.

And using really well with piano in 21 days, my online course, and I'm going to give you some training on how to use click funnels as a course creator, so you'll get all that for free when you sign up for a free trial of ClickFunnels using the online course guy.com/click this episode is also brought to you by Bon Juro.

Another one of my favorite tools. I use a bunch or each and every day to send a personal welcome video. To my new signups for my online piano course. In fact, I had several people sign up yesterday. Here's somebody named Pascal that signed up, so I just opened up my app. I'm going to hit record now and do a bunch of oral right now.

Hey Pascal, this is jock and I just wanted to personally welcome you to piano in 21 days. Thanks so much for signing up for the ultimate package yesterday. I'm so glad you signed up. Good luck to you and I look forward to chatting with you more as you go through the course. So now, Pascal has a personal welcome video from the guy who.

Is in the videos of the course he's about to take. And how exciting is that? I know anytime I've received Bunge Oros starting an online course, I've been blown away as well. So you can get started with a free trial of that by going to dot com slash Jacques that's dot com slash Jac. Q U. E S regular people are taking their knowledge and content, packaging it up in an online course and they're making a living doing it.

But not everyone is successful with online courses. There's a right way and there's a wrong way, and I'm here to help course creators actually succeed with online courses. Hi, I'm John Hopkins, and this is the online course show.
And off we go. Welcome aboard. Glad you're with us. This is the online course show. I'm your host Jacques Hopkins, and here with us as usual is our cohost, David. Cozy.

David Krohse: Hey, what's up?

Jacques Hopkins: And we are pumped up. We are excited to dive into all things. Online courses with you today. This is episode one 31 welcome, David. I'm super pumped for this episode.

David Krohse: Thank you. Definitely.

Jacques Hopkins: What's going on with you, man? How are you holding up with this global pandemic?

David Krohse: Ah, I'm in really good spirits. It's a sunny day up here in Iowa, a little bit West of Chicago for the people around the world, but yeah, I mentioned last week I had gotten to core sales in my little, my launch, and I got one more by the end of the day.

So $1,200 in sales. And then finally I actually have my deadline funnel running. So I got a group of people going through there. So super excited about that. And I gotta tell you, I really feel like I have just the mother of all lead magnets as far as like, if somebody hits the page, I think that they will click through.

I was in a group, it's called modern chiropractic marketing. Again, my courses, marketing strategies for chiropractors, specifically this lunch and learn component, but the organizer of this larger Facebook group, he said, why don't you want to know about. And the top three things were personal injury, attorney marketing, medical doctor marketing, and then Facebook ads.

And so I basically. My, my main courses and about those, but I was able to offer like a valuable lesson on each of those. So I'm, I think I'm gonna actually run some Facebook ads to this and just see, see what happens.

Jacques Hopkins: So right on, right on. Well, do you need a, you need a recommendation for a Facebook ads person?

David Krohse: No, I'm going to do it yourself.

Jacques Hopkins: But when it comes to that. I know. I'm just messing with you. Eventually you'll get there. You know, there's, there's a couple of recommendations I have for people that maybe are listening to this. I've, I've used the Monica Louie in the past who has been on a past episode.

She's wonderful to work with, and she and her team just do Facebook ads. And then there's also a Chanel tool. Of conversion al.com who does she, she's just great with analytics and just really geeking out in the data and she does all a lot of platforms. YouTube ads, Google ads, Facebook ads, Bing ads, and so I recommend those to people.

Anybody out there looking to do some Facebook ads or you could do it yourself, which I'm not a fan of, but I've seen you do some of that and you're, you're, you're, you're better at, you're better at that than me for sure.

My sister is a very accomplished artist. She's, she's, I mean, I'm biased, but I think she's phenomenal and a lot of people think she's phenomenal and anybody can check out her [email protected] she's a very accomplished artist. In addition, in addition to selling her artwork, which she does a lot of that, one of her income streams is these live weddings, and I may have talked about this on the podcast before, where she goes, she lie, there's a live painting at a wedding, will all, obviously that income stream is.

Is going away right now, or it doesn't exist right now. In fact, she's supposed to be getting married herself next month, which is of course in jeopardy. But she, I've been, I've been, I've been getting like talking to her about online courses for years. And so finally, like a couple days ago, she texted me, she's like, Hey, I think I'm ready to, you know, start talking about online courses.

Seriously. Like, let's, let's meet up and figure this out because. It would be just another phenomenal income stream for her, and she's so personable. She'd be great on camera, and she's, she's great at what she does. One thing in our background several years ago is if you've ever heard of, you know, those those deals where you can go and bring your own wine and paint there.

There's a bunch of different names, painting with a twist, painting and Pino, those types of things. She used to work at one of those and she was one of their best people and they would actually. Send her out all kinds of places to do training when they would open new ones. So I think she could kill it with an online course and it's a great time for it.

David Krohse: That's awesome. Well, I saw your brother in law was in the Facebook group, say, and he's thinking about making a course too. So is that, is that future brother-in-law or do you have two sisters?

Jacques Hopkins: No, that's my wife's sister's husband. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he, he's been hitting me up recently as well, and it was funny seeing his post in the Facebook group, the online course community, which is free, by the way.

Everybody should be there. If you're listening to this podcast, you should definitely be there. But he made a post and then a bunch of people responded immediately, including you. And a lot of great people. And I think he was, he was. Surprise that the value that all you guys were bringing to me. And he was like, wow, this is, this is awesome.

I think I need to move forward now. So that's really cool. All right, and look, I made a note here. You mentioned deadline funnel. You're probably on the free trial because if people use my link that Jack Borden helped me set up, you get a 28 day free trial. And so I imagine you're still haven't even paid for deadline funnel yet. Correct. Awesome. So deadline funnel.com/slash Oh CG. Awesome. Cool. Anything else?

David Krohse: No. What's been going on down in Louisiana.

Jacques Hopkins: Man, we're just humming along. We're doing our thing. You know, kids are obviously aren't in school, so we've got our pretty regular routine going. My wife is killing it as, as a mom and a, and a, and you know, she's got a, she's the chef, she's the mom. She's the, she's the. Teacher. She's, she's wearing so many hats right now and she's doing a phenomenal job, and my course is just humming along, man. It's doing as well as it ever has done in terms of any metric, right? Revenue number, of course, sales, number of happy students, testimonials coming in. Just praise for the program.

It's just, it's in a really, really good place right now and I've, I've already easily surpassed the, the best month ever in terms of all those metrics and just about the crossover, something that I didn't know I would ever be able to do, and that's a six figure month.

David Krohse: No way. Yeah. Congratulations. And it's only the 21st lover, that's for sure going to happen.

Jacques Hopkins: We're recording this on, you know, I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, as they say. Right. And we're recording this. We usually record these about a month before they're actually released. So it's late April right now, and. I'm about at 95 okay. So it's looking good. Yeah. You know, those live webinars helped.

There was a, there was a period, I think I might've talked about this last week, but I sold 84 copies of my course over a three day period. So that really helped. And then that when to a launch, I did like 10 K, 10 K and then like seven K over the course of three days of doing the live launch. And then, you know, the open cart period was there and I did.

Did really well throughout that. And then the last day, the closed car day, I did about nine K, so there were some really big days there. That's just all added up and it's just blowing me away. It's amazing. But I am saving as much of that money as I possibly can, emergency funds and whatnot. So it's just, it's remarkable.

But I don't want, I don't want the. You know, just dollars to be the key metric in my business either. And I'm getting more, like I said, more testimonials. I've got a couple of amazing video testimonials have come through and just really trying to monitor student success. And as I look through it, I feel like.

You know, I, I had everything really dialed in, going into this whole thing, and I feel like I'm being rewarded for it right now. And my students are being rewarded for that right now too. And if you're not, if you're not succeeding right now or you're not succeeding with online courses, one message I want to remind people of is, is that of simplicity, right?

Think of it like this. There's not that many components to having a successful online course business. You've got to have traffic. Got to have traffic. Obviously you've got to have some sort of funnel. Now, it could be incredibly simple or it can be complex, but you have to have some sort of funnel and you have to have a course, right traffic, a funnel, end course.

And in addition to those three things, I would say the most important thing would be student success and testimonials. So. There's really four components there, and if things are not working for you, then it might be all four things, or it might be one of those four things, and if any one of them breaks down, then you're going to have a problem.

So I would start with the whole student success thing and testimonials. It's like, are you regularly getting. High praise for your course. And are you able to post that high praise in public places? And if not, that's a major problem. Right? So is it, and at the end of the day, that is telling you if your courses down in, do you have a funnel that's regularly converting?

And then on the front end, the traffic, do you have a consistent stream of traffic? So just think about it in those high broad categories and do an analysis and see where the breakdown is happening and dial in one of those. At a time and then move on to the next one. Fortunately, I would say all all four of mine right now are very, very dialed in, and that's why things are going so well.

Tracy Goodwin: Have you thought of a way that you could celebrate? I mean, that is a big accomplishment. I mean, we kind of, things are shut down a little bit, but if there's something that you can celebrate that with.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, yeah. We're going to get, we're going to get a very nice bottle of champagne at the end of this month from a place that we have been before.

Basically where they make Dom Perignon, just to celebrate and once again to celebration is not just about money. You know, me and my wife to talked about this, about how we need to celebrate things like this, but, but a lot of people are struggling out there too. And I just, I want to celebrate a lot of things and I have.

I have a way that I'm thinking of that. I want to celebrate it with other people too, and I'm not ready to share that yet, but I'm excited, excited to to share that. So that's what's going on over here, man. The next thing is let's go ahead and jump into our win of the week. I've really been enjoying this segment.

I've got another one, another audio message from somebody who I know pretty well. I'm in a weekly mastermind with some really cool people. Shout out to Nick Loper of the side hustle show for putting that together. It's Nick and myself and Jonathan of the choose F five podcast and Dr. Ryan Gray, who teaches people, teaches.

Students to get into medical school. And then there's Steve young, Steve P young, not to be confused with the former former 40 Niners quarterback, which you're not a sports guy, David, so I don't even know if you knew that, but Steve young has a very famous name and he runs a site called app masters, and he teaches people to succeed with apps in the app store.

And. So historically, most of his revenue has not come from courses. It's come from services like consulting services and and things like that. And he's been going through my course lately and he's, he's given some pretty positive feedback about the course experience and he's had some really good results from it as well.

And so specifically the phone funnel, and he was telling me about how great it's been working for him. I was like, man. Like people need to hear this. Like if you don't mind, share it in this one of the week segment we're doing. And he was all for it. And so let's, let's go ahead and play it and then we'll talk about it on the back end.

So without further ado, here's this week's win of the week. what is up? It is Steve P young from app masters.com and since implementing jocks. Phone funnel launch sequence. I've been able to convert over 80% of my sales to my online course. It's been a game changer for me and something that I really resonate with because I get to really talk to my target audience, hear their pain points, and see how I can customize.

A course and consulting to help them succeed. So thank you, Josh, for sharing your course with me. It has been a game changer. Go check it out. It is the phone funnel launch sequence, so thanks again to Steve for providing that he's been having success with the phone funnel, man. He's, he's so pumped about getting on the phone with people and doing his sales that way. What do you think about that?

Tracy Goodwin: It was awesome. I agree. I mean, it's a powerful thing. Everybody should, at some point in their course journey, jump on the phone and it can lead to more sales, but also just really find out exactly where they're at and what they need help with.

Jacques Hopkins: And he was able to convert his very first one like he was, he was nervous about it. And he went into it and he, after he got the actual sale, he contacted me directly. He's like, Hey Jacques, you know, first one converted. This is amazing. I love the phone funnel, which is in the course. You know, you can find out more about that at the online course, guy.com and click on online course accelerator, which is a, it's not going to be around forever.

It's not going to be free forever. We've got some, some things up my sleeve that I'm excited about. But one more funny thing. You know, I mentioned that Steve young is a, is a, is a famous football player. Not, not this. Steve young, Steve ya this Steve young is a famous app consultant, but there was about a, about five days ago, a guy signed up for my piano program and his name is Nolan Ryan.

And does that name ring a bell? I know that one. Yeah. That's a famous baseball player from back in the day. And one of my good friends is a moderator in the Facebook group for my piano students. So those that purchase, so he sees the names when they, when they are requesting to join the group. And he's like, dude, is this the Nolan Ryan.

And I was like, no, it's not the Nolan Ryan. The very next day he sends me another text message message. I look at it, he goes, Bobby Knight with like six question marks. And so back to back days, I had Nolan Ryan sign up and then Bobby Knight, who's a really famous basketball coach, and of course, neither one of those are, you know, the Nolan Ryan or Bobby Knight.

But it's just really funny sequence of events. And then we start talking about Steve young and there we go. So maybe, maybe one day, one of those super high profile guys will. One on one piano.

David Krohse: Yeah. Just don't get in the way. A throne chair. Right.

Jacques Hopkins: Ooh, look, David, you know hello. Matt is too.

David Krohse: He's up.

Jacques Hopkins: He's up in your neck of the woods. He was, he was the Indiana coach, I believe.

David Krohse: Yup. I don't watch the games, but like, yeah, I still see some of the drama, I guess.

Jacques Hopkins: And that was really interesting. That was for many years ago. All right, well, we've, we've spent enough time on the intro. It's been a lot of fun. But the core content of today's episode is a conversation with a lady named Tracy Goodwin.

It was a wonderful conversation. She used to be on you, to me, and it was very interesting to hear the reasons that she moved off of you to me. And she's still very successful and has a very interesting niche as well. So we're going to play that. Interview. This whole thing is called an episode, and David and I will be back on the back end to discuss that a little bit more.

So let's go ahead and get into the full conversation with Tracy Goodwin right now. Hey there, Tracy, welcome to the online course show.

Tracy Goodwin: Hey, I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having.

Jacques Hopkins: Me. It's a pleasure to have you on. Why don't you start by letting us know who it is that you help and how it is that you help.

Tracy Goodwin: Them. I help. That's the hardest question. I think that'll be the hardest question you ask me. I help entrepreneurs and business executives and leaders around the globe who want to make a bigger impact with their message by changing how they use their voice by moving out the sounds that are subconsciously sabotaging their success and really. Driving their message home and getting more of what they want faster.

Jacques Hopkins: Okay. All right, so y'all entrepreneurs and people running a business to change. All right, go, go, go through that with me a little slower. I want to really understand who this is that you're helping.

Tracy Goodwin: So executives, entrepreneurs, really anybody. And that's why I said it was probably the hardest question you would ask because what I teach is called psychology of the voice. And after 30 years, what my research shows me and what my work shows me is that there are things that are coming out of our voice, specific sounds that are sabotaging our next level of success.

So am I making the impact? Am I, am I making you feel what I want you to feel? Am I captivating? You. So people really, anybody, any of these business people, executives that want to take their message and they want to get faster results, they want to make more money. They want to make things happen on a whole nother level simply by what we're hearing in their voice.

Jacques Hopkins: So is this as simple as, and by the way, I just kind of like super nervous that you're just going to be like ripping me apart throughout this whole conversation now. So are we talking about things as simple as constantly. Saying almond filler words or is it a lot deeper than that?

Tracy Goodwin: We can definitely look at that, but we're talking deeper. Let me give you an example. That's the best way for me to explain it. There was a, and I could give you examples all day, but I was recently working with a girl who was in online sales. She worked in a call center. And on one phrase, she was asking the people to fill out an application and I could hear in her voice, the sound of this is going to be a complicated process.

I removed that sound and overnight people started sending in applications faster than they ever had, and it was because the subconscious of the listener was literally processing that sound and they were then thinking. Oh, that sounds like a hassle. I'll get to it over the weekend. And they were never getting to it.

So it's first for selling. It's for people leading teams. What are you, what are they hearing? What are they processing? Are they doing what you need them to do, or is there some sound that says you don't really want them to do it?

Jacques Hopkins: So let's tie that into what you're offering. And maybe specifically an online course offering, because this sounds kind of like something where. You would need a pretty high level of interactions. You could really understand what the individual's problem is. How are you doing this with an online course?

Tracy Goodwin: That is such a great question, and that was honestly one of the hardest things to figure out with regards to an online course. I wanted an online course because I wanted to reach the most people, and so when I actually started doing courses, they were much more generic.

Of like public speaking like that, but when I really got into psychology of the voice effect as a course, what I had, what I had to do because yes, the interaction and yes, my ear, but what I had to do was really hone in on what is causing these sounds and alert people to stop doing those actions. For example, if you're in the future.

I am going to hear a certain sound. So that's the way I teach in the course is, yeah. I can't address your exact sound because I'm not with you, but I can tell you all the drivers, all the mental things to shift so we can move those sounds out.

Jacques Hopkins: Okay. So take us back in time to when you decided you were going to turn this information and knowledge that you had into an online course. When was this? What was your process like and tell us about that very first sale. You might've had.

Tracy Goodwin: Seven years ago, and online learning was just, I don't know, maybe it had been out, but there was a, a very popular platform. It's still around, and I dunno, am I allowed to say it.

Jacques Hopkins: I, I'm going to guess it's you to me and then absolutely you can.

Tracy Goodwin: Yes. Okay. So it had just come out and of course I was, I had been working online with people already for many years via Skype, via zoom coaching people. So I was, I was familiar with the online scene and this came out, and this, this you to me. And so I was hearing a lot of buzz about it. And back then when you loaded courses online on you, to me, you could charge whatever you wanted.

200 300 700 there. There were all of us back then. It was a very, you know, I don't, I, it felt like a small group of us. We're really charging wonderful. You know, it was so wonderful. And so I thought, good grief, I've got so much to teach and, and one of the things that I want to do before I leave this planet is touch the most amount of people.

To help them see the power of their voice. I am so comfortable on camera. I've been coaching celebrities. I was a television actor. Let's go. This is, this is calling my name, so I, I put a voice, I put a voice course up first. I ended up with four or five, six courses and boy, it was great the first of every month when those checks came in and I'll never forget.

I think the biggest defining moment was that first month when. Yeah. I had filmed the courses. I had spent days filming the courses and writing the courses and all of that, but to get that first check that was several thousand dollars was like I had arrived. You know? It was so wonderful. Wow.

Jacques Hopkins: So it sounds like we started in relatively the same time period. I mean, I got, I got the idea for my online piano course in 2013 early 2013 and I didn't really know about you. To me at the time, online courses weren't near as popular as they are today. I went the route of going on my own domain domain, and when I launched my course. I wasn't a super success. Was it easy to get those first initial sales on you? To me? Because you had the power of their marketing.

Tracy Goodwin: Yeah, and that's why I did it. I, I really, I really was more inclined to go the route you went. But I was nervous about my ability to market. I was nervous about my, I just, that's, you know, I know what I'm good at and I know where I need to to learn and I was really nervous that I could make that happen in there. It was sitting there. They were going to do all the marketing.

Jacques Hopkins: Well, I mean, you, your first check you said was in the order of several thousand dollars. Obviously it was, it was essentially an, an instant success. What, for you? Was it as simple as. Uploading some videos, some lesson plans and so on and, and they kind of took care of the rest or was there more to it than that?

Tracy Goodwin: No, I planned the courses. I shot, filmed the courses, I loaded the courses, I collected the checks. It was just that simple.

Jacques Hopkins: Well, I don't have a course on you. To me and most of the people that have had on the show that. That have had success on you? To me, you know, they, they end up just having a lot of sales at like $10 and I've purchased a lot of courses on Udemy.

I've never spent more than $10 on a course on you and me because it's so easy to just punch in the coupon code. They always have it available and it's $10 it sounds like that wasn't always the case. Do you remember about when that switch may have happened?

Tracy Goodwin: Pretty early on? I want to say that I had a good year. And I don't know that I was, I feel like I got on you. To me the first year it was out, maybe I didn't, but I, I really feel like I got there from the beginning and it was about a year, and then that coupon things started now. We had always had the ability to offer a deal or, but it was within our control and what I, and, and that was ultimately why I left, because for me it was about.

And I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but this, it was for me, it was about very much about quality. I really was invested in what I produced and my courses, you know, had 60 70 video and that which huge courses I was teaching everything. And then when it would. Everything was discounted to $10 and so you're ultimately looking at $5 a course, and I'm sitting on a 25 year body of research, two master's degrees, extensive research. Well, I struggled with that.

Jacques Hopkins: You want us to be paid what you felt like your information was worth. Okay, so when, when is it around when you made the transition away from you to me, onto your own own platform, own domain, and how did it go?

Tracy Goodwin: I want to say that I went back and forth on trying to decide what to do for almost a year. In my heart of hearts and in my gut. I knew I had to go, but I ran back into that fear of, I don't know how to market a course. I don't know how to do it. How are, how are people going to know who I am? How are they gonna find me? And so. I guess probably another year went by and I, I just, I couldn't look at it anymore.

I had gotten to where it just broke my heart to see that this happening. So I pulled all my courses and I start and I, and I had six, seven, eight, nine courses going at the same time, and I pulled it all back to one. And then I had to, and then I had three on my own platform. And since then, I mean, things have even changed again now that I've read on psychology of the voice effect.

And it's really my main course, but I moved them over to my, my domain and it was harder. I'll just be honest with you. I had been spoiled, you know, it was harder, but to me it was worth it. 100% because now I could charge what I felt like this training was truly worth. And, and I F I had peace about it. I didn't have peace about it before.

Jacques Hopkins: So how much is your course now today?

Tracy Goodwin: Psychology of the voice of fact is nine 95.

Jacques Hopkins: And how are you selling it? Are you using a funnel of any sort or is it just, you know, sales page on your website?

Tracy Goodwin: It's sales page on the website right now. Because again, like all marketing and things like that, funnel scared me, but I actually am having a funnel built now, but it's literally been done through social media. I have a really big referral business, and so I take, you know, I have a lot of calls where I lay out, okay, this is what it costs to work with me one-on-one, but this is what costs to work with me in a group. And this is if, if that doesn't work, then we've also got this option. So I funnel a lot of, you know, just from my own traffic, from my own social media, from my own referrals. I funnel people to it. Now.

Jacques Hopkins: So you have she multiple, multiple ways you can help people. Even to this day. It sounds like you have a one on one program, a group coaching program, and the online course. Is that fair to say? So you get people coming to your site interested in any of the three, and is it, are you getting on the phone with people sometimes too to talk to them about working with you and then you kind of see which ones are going to be the best fit for them?

Tracy Goodwin: Yes, and sometimes that happens via email. Sometimes it's a discussion via email, but a lot of times it's a 15 minute jump on a call. Let's see what works for your budget. Let's see what works for you. Let me hear your voice and I can direct you in the best way to go.

Jacques Hopkins: So you mentioned that you have a lot of referrals, a lot of word of mouth traffic. Other than that, how are, how are people finding you.

Tracy Goodwin: The strangest ways. I have a podcast, which has been phenomenal for traffic for people to find me. There were many, several years where the majority, almost all of my business that didn't come from referrals came from my podcast, but now I'm much more active on social media. I run Facebook ads. I run people, you know, I'm on, I'm much more visible than I ever was.

So people, people find me and I get a lot of generic searches to people caught, you know, putting in a search for improve my voice. YouTube is also, has also been a really good place of success for me. That is where I probably, if I had to line it out, I would say that the majority of my course purchases.

Actually come from people off of YouTube, either YouTube or the podcast. They have been really, both of them have been really excellent sources of traffic for me, and I've not really, until recently invested a ton of time or money in that. It's been very organic.

Jacques Hopkins: So early on you said that you got into all nine courses because. You want it to be able to reach more people and spread this message to more people and scale it better. but you're still doing, you're still doing one on one, you're still doing group group coaching. What do you get more excited about these days when somebody signs up for your course or your coaching program?

Tracy Goodwin: Okay. That's now the hardest question.

Jacques Hopkins: Well, let me, let me give you a little frame of reference. I mean, I don't really do a lot of one on one coaching anymore. I was doing, I was doing a good bit because I could, you know, I could work with somebody one on one. I could really see exactly what I was helping them with.

I could, I could give them dedicated advice on their online course, but that doesn't scale very well, as you know. And so I rely more on on core sales and more, I guess more generic information out there because it just gives me more freedom and more scale on my side. So I'm curious your take on that since you're doing both at this point.

Tracy Goodwin: You are 100% correct. And that's actually the place that I have come to you in the last year, which is one of the reasons why I redid psychology of the voice of fact. The entire course redid all the videos. Is because that one on one is so labor intensive. And so where, where the number of people that I worked with and the, and the scope of people I worked with one on one three years ago has changed dramatically.

It is. I have niched down to a very small group of people that I will work with one-on-one, and that's it. Exactly. Because it's the four from a time perspective, I generally funnel people into the group or into the core sales. So to go back to your question. I don't know. I, I get excited about all of them and I'm leaning towards thinking maybe I might even get the most excited about people buying the digital course now, you know?

Because I know that they're going to learn and I can support them in a way that's not a massive time investment, like my one on one coaching. Oh, very.

Jacques Hopkins: Cool. All right, so you mentioned Facebook ads a little while ago. Are you running those yourself or are you, do you outsource those.

Tracy Goodwin: I was doing them myself. I am a massive course investor myself. Okay. And I spend an absolute small fortune on coaches and mentors and programs. One, because I love to learn, but too, because there are, I know there are some things. . Sometimes you have to scale up that in the beginning, okay, maybe I needed to play around with this a little bit.

But then I'm also really good at knowing what I am capable of and what I'm not. So while I started doing Facebook ads on my own, I have now based on, and based on a great mentor, not just random poking at straws out there, but really working with a system that I learned from a really great mentor. But now my schedule is so full of that. That I actually outsource, outsource a lot of stuff now.

Jacques Hopkins: Oh, good. Okay. So how important do you, how important to your success do you think having all of these coaches and mentors in online courses have been to do to your success?

Tracy Goodwin: I think it's been phenomenal. I think it's been phenomenal. Sure. There's investments that I've made that I've thought, I don't know. Did I really get, did I really get what I. Wanted out of that course, and I have invested in some phenomenal mentors over the years.

Jacques Hopkins: Are there any, are there any that you wouldn't mind sharing, whether it's a, a guru, a person, or a specific course, or even a book and any resources that really jumped out at you that you'd recommend.

Tracy Goodwin: Absolutely. My number one, well, they're tied, they're really tied. But Brandon Lucero, who does the video for X effect has been one of the most phenomenal, impactful mentors of my life. Not only he as a person is incredible, but his program is incredible, and I knew that I was selling something that. People didn't always recognize the max value in especially the way I approach it.

And so Brandon's a messaging specialist. He's a messaging expert, and I have adored working with him. The other one would be James Wedmore, who is phenomenal, phenomenal coach, phenomenal program, phenomenal systems. He's my systems guy. He's my business guy, and just adore him as well. So I would highly recommend both of their programs.

Jacques Hopkins: James Wedmore is one of the guys that I was following early on years and years ago, specifically. I think originally it was, he was kind of a video guy in general. Is that somebody that you've worked with one-on-one or you've just kind of purchased some of his courses.

Tracy Goodwin: Well, I with James, aye. Aye. But BBD his signature course now is a business by design. So I know when you're talking about when he used to be the YouTube guy, right. And he was great. I mean, he's just great. But now his signature course. It doesn't have a one-on-one component, but it does have a group teaching component to it. You know, if you will. He gets on, we get on a zoom call and he's teachers and coaches. And, and the same with Brandon, although was Brandon. I am in his mentorship. So I have had, I did buy in and do one on one coaching with.

Jacques Hopkins: Brandon. So, what about like a really. Cool experience or purchase you've been able to do or to make as a result of having an online course business?

Tracy Goodwin: Well, in addition to wanting to have, wanting to reach so many people, I'm also the single mother of a special needs child. online courses provided me an incredible opportunity to provide things, things for him, like private school. So while I didn't take a fancy trip to Hawaii or a cruise around the world, online courses provided me an opportunity to positively impact my child's life in ways that I never, ever, ever could have done. Without them.

Jacques Hopkins: That's amazing. That's, that's truly amazing. The power of, I mean, you're putting yourself out there seven years ago and, and being an almost instant success on you, to me, is amazing. And obviously you weren't able to stick on that platform forever, but you made it work. You know, even beyond that platform as well.

So now here we are in 2020 and it sounds like you're still making sales. You're still very successful, and still very fulfilled in what you're doing. If you could take all the information you have now and go back to 2013 when you first got the idea for an online course and kind of start over in 2013 what would you have done differently?

Tracy Goodwin: Not put 70 modules in a course. For one. You know, I, I, because I love what I do and because I'm a giver and because I w I want to teach and change the world. Sometimes I can over-give and so I would have had more of a strategy about this is what they need. Don't overwhelm them. Don't roll the TV, podcast, voice, change everything the whole world.

Take it on. All in one course there would have been more of a system of this is your core, this is your foundation. This is where we start. Now. If you want to specialize in maybe how you, how you use your voice on video, we've got that now. Or maybe you want to know exactly how to do your podcast. We've got that.

So that's one thing that I would do differently is I wouldn't, I wouldn't fire hose people with my knowledge. Again.

Jacques Hopkins: Is it B is a V mainly because that strategy is just having too much information, just causes paralysis and people and they don't actually take the action because it's so much.

I think so. I actually actually pride myself in my, like my piano course at being as shorted it as it is. Not only is it piano in 21 days, it's 21 day program, but each lesson is like 10 or 15 minutes. It's really not a whole lot. And so people will come at me and be like. Look, Jacques, you know, there's this, there's this other course over here, and it's, it's got way more content.

You know, it's got 70 hours worth of content and it's a lot cheaper than your course. You know, why should I buy yours over mine? And it sounds like, it sounds like that's not as important. In fact, having a shorter course could actually be helping you serve people better.

Tracy Goodwin: Oh, for sure. For sure. And there's so much I've learned over the years, you know, I mean, I, it was, it was unknown territory back then. I filmed and went there. Well, I didn't have a mentor then. I didn't have an online, you know, this is how you do online courses. It was, it was just the wild West back then. But now I've learned so much more that that is one thing for sure, that I would do.

Jacques Hopkins: All right. Next, let's get into some tools and tech. So you've, you've obviously moved away from you to me, and now you're on your own platform. What tools are you liking today in your online course business, whether it's online course platform, email, autoresponders, and so on?

Tracy Goodwin: Well, I use convert kit is my auto, is my autoresponder. That's how I manage all my emails and I love that. And for, I'm just now moving into. Oh, learn, learn dash yeah. And that was at the advice of, I just have a brand new website built and at the advice of my web designer. So we're in the process right now of adding even more of my courses to learn dash and I'm, I'm really happy with that. I like super user friendly.

I'm not good at tech. I'm not, I'm not, I don't have patients, five patients all day long with you on your voice, but patients to figure it out. Autoresponder. no. So I find those, I find both of them very, very simple to work with, which is in my eyes, if they, that's it right there.

Jacques Hopkins: Well, I've gotta be honest with you, I'm, I'm pretty good with tech and even still, I love, you know, user-friendly, so that all that all sounds good to me.

I, I don't, I hate when I try out new software. It's just like you cannot figure it out. I definitely have had my fair share of struggles with that. In fact, back in 2013 when I was going to launch my course for the first time, I ran into an issue at the 11th hour with my, you know. Of course hosting platform. I just could not figure it out. And I had to switch at the last minute and totally agree with you there. Totally agree.

Tracy Goodwin: Oh my gosh, I would have freaked out.

Jacques Hopkins: All right, so for those out there listening, that may be are more in the beginning stages of the course creation process. Maybe they just got the idea for something they're hearing about all these success stories and they're motivated. But they're, you know, maybe struggling with the, the, the correct steps to take. They don't want to make the wrong move. Maybe scared to put themselves out there. What advice do you have for those beginning course creators out.

Tracy Goodwin: There? Well, I have several things. First, more. Marie Forleo is the one that says the phrase start before you're ready. And I think that there's so much merit to that because you could sit around and try to get it perfect for the rest of your life before you roll it out. And not that I'm saying just slap something out there, but. But give yourself a little bit more credit, then you might be giving . We fear judgment and, and that's literally a trick of the subconscious. And though that judgment is not real, that there is an audience, someone's out there waiting to hear your message. And so I would definitely say on the front end, get really clear on, on what you want to put out, break it down into an outline, break it into modules. What does it look like. What do you want it to be?

Definitely do that for an end or, and then go to filming you to filming. You know, you're not going to have it perfect. You know? Even just looking back over my courses, I just had a laugh, you know? I just have even even me who does this stuff for a living, even me, no problem with video. I see how much I've improved over the years and content and flow and, and T. Teaching. So just add a clear idea on what you want and start filming. Yeah.

Jacques Hopkins: That's great advice. I think it's rare that people are truly ready for that, for PO, for, for an online business, for an online course, for putting themselves out there like that. But part of the process of becoming ready is, is by doing it. By actually doing it.

Tracy Goodwin: So 100%.

Jacques Hopkins: Tracy, this has been a pleasure to get to know you and your story a little bit. Thank you so much for joining me here today. Where is it that people can, can find your stuff online and connect with you online?

Tracy Goodwin: Captivate the room.com is my website, and most of my social media is captivate the room. My podcast is captivate the room. Couple of my social media is are Tracy Goodwin, but for the most part, captivate the rooms, the best place to find me.

Jacques Hopkins: Outstanding. Tracy Goodwin from captivate the room.com. Thank you so much for your time today. All right, that's gonna do it for the conversation with Tracy.

David, welcome back. Thank you man. I enjoyed this one. I enjoyed this one. You know the, the thing about you to me, jumps out at me how that's how she got started is really interesting because she got started right at the same time as me, and I don't even think I knew about you. To me at the time, I don't think that's one of the options I was considering, but a lot of people, you know, some of those early people that found success on uni made a lot, a lot, a lot of money, and she's one of those early people.

She was able to charge hundreds at first, but then. You know, she was so proud of our product and then because she was on somebody else's platform, she was forced into charging $10 for a course instead of hundreds of dollars. And that's no fun. Nobody likes that.

David Krohse: No, exactly. And yeah, the, they just kept driving the price down it sounds like. So I never knew that you, to me, at one point, you know, course instructors would sell courses at $500 I was interesting. Now you said that you don't have a YouTube me course. I thought at one point. You talked with the guest and added a little bit of a, a small teaser course to the you, to me.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, I did. What I did is on my piano in 21 days site, the free opt in is, is the five day workbook, learn 36 popular songs in five days. It's basically the first five days of my course in a workbook. And so after talking to, I think it was Jeremy Degan many episodes ago, he was suggesting you could put kind of small courses on Udemy as, as a source of traffic and lead magnets.

And so I put my first five days of videos. And of course on you to me, and I actually charged, I think the price point was $20 and of course most people could get that for $10 just because that's just the way it works. And just, you know, you got to test things, you got to try things, test things. I put it out there and it did okay.

And it actually brought in maybe 25 $30 a month, which is not much in the grand scheme of things. And it wasn't getting me very many leads and it wasn't getting me very many leads. That converted into sales. So I left it up for probably a year, and I just recently, maybe a month or two. Killed it because I'm not a fan of just having things out there and all these different places if they're not truly working right.

I mentioned simplicity early on and I had made it an executive decision like, look, this is not worth, you know, this, this little piece of, of my energy in the world. This is just. Not worth it. It's not serving people the right way. And also there's, I don't think you, to me, wants you to be on their platform just as a source of, of leads.

And so there's a, there's a moral thing there too, and respecting their platform. And so I decided to just kill it. I have great traffic from coming from other sources. So that's, that's the story of my course, not being on you to me anymore.

David Krohse: I was thinking just as we were talking about you, to me, just drop the price and how important it was for her to build her own platform, but you had kind of a single similar experience just recently with Amazon, Amazon.

Jacques Hopkins: Affiliate, didn't you? Yeah. They dropped the price on people. Unfortunately. Or not that price, but the percentage that they share with their affiliates. So I get a decent amount of money each month from recommending pianos and keyboards to people, and that that percentage for musical instruments dropped from, I think 6% to 3% so cut in half.

Fortunately, it's not a huge percentage of my revenue, so it doesn't affect me very much. You know, I told that story a few episodes ago, how I actually forgot about my Amazon revenue for a while. And so I know for a fact that in the past year, I. Earn about $9,000 from Amazon affiliate income because that's how much I forgot, or, or was it, granted to me each month and they had to just give it to me in a lump sum so that 9,000 is going to turn into 4,500 over the next year.

But I'll more than make up for it in core sales. But you know, that's a lesson in diversifying your income too. Right? So, Sarah, there are certainly some companies that are fully relying on Amazon income. They're fully reliant on other people in other companies. And. They're going to get hit hard by that for sure.

All right. Keep moving forward here with our takeaways from this interview. You know, it's interesting that she's still make sales of her course over the phone. You know, we talked about that in the intro with Steve. She's doing it too. This is not, this is not some rogue thing that hardly anybody's doing.

People are still selling online courses on the phone and including Tracy, and it's such a great experience. . So we talked about that a little bit already with Steve story. I thought it was interesting that Tracy really says most of our traffic comes from YouTube and a podcast and not really paid ads.

And that's, that's what I preach. Like, look, pick a platform like YouTube, like a podcast, and stick with it. Put out consistent, authentic content, and that's a great way to get traffic into an online course funnel. And then to your course.

David Krohse: Definitely.

Jacques Hopkins: Next take away from me and feel free to jump in any time would be, and this was a big one, man, what her course allowed her to do. Right? So for some people it's travel. Some people it's quit your job, this and that and that. And obviously it can be a big list for her. You know, I, I wasn't expecting this, but a single parent of a, of a special needs kid, it allowed her to pay for the necessary schooling. How amazing is that?

David Krohse: It's super cool. Yeah. That was a kind of sent shivers down the spine moment. It was very cool.

Jacques Hopkins: Yeah, really cool. And the last, you know, big takeaway from me is what she said that she would change if she could go back and do it over again. And she said she wouldn't have put as much stuff into her course. It wouldn't have been as long.

It wouldn't have been as much content at first. And she talked about the reasons for that and I couldn't agree more. Your course doesn't have to, you know, have everything in the kitchen sink in it. It's just got to. Be able to take somebody from an a to Z transformation. You just gotta think about what do you want?

What's your ideal customer look like? Going into your course, what do you, what do you want them to look like when they finish your course and put inside your course, the necessary step-by-step steps to make that happen. Nothing more. Nothing.

David Krohse: Less. Yeah, definitely. Well, the one other thing I wanted to chat about, it's a little bit of a tangent, but. As soon as I heard what her course was about, I was like, I wonder if she coached Lizabeth Elizabeth Holmes from Theranose. So are you familiar with the thera? No story?

Jacques Hopkins: No, I'm not.

David Krohse: Oh my gosh. So this is basically me trying to convince everybody to read this book. There are no, well, the, so the book is bad blood, and I always say like, my favorite books are unbelievable nonfiction. So true stories that when you read the book, you're like, Oh my God, this has.

Jacques Hopkins: To be made up. Oh, kind of like tiger King, right?

David Krohse: Eh, very much so. Yeah. So. But this Elizabeth Holmes, she dropped out of Stanford at like 20 years old, 21 years old, and her concept that was that she was going to revolutionize blood testing and basically create this device that would, that would be able to run like 200 tests on a pinprick of blood.

And it was revolutionary. She basically this book, if you read it, and there's all these lessons that apply to anybody that's trying to start a business and start a movement. So she got the Stanford professor on board behind her mission. Once she got him as like social proof, she ended up with this like board of directors that included like former us, secretary of defense, former secretary of state, former us Senator.

She got all these super high profile people that were like on her board. Billions of dollars invested. And so at 24 years old, this company got up to a $9 billion valuation and she, her, her personal net worth was at four and a half billion dollars. But along the way, and this is where the Tracy Goodwin comes in, she basically kind of like, she was this frumpy, kind of nerdy blonde lady, but she decided she was going to kind of craft herself in the image of Steve jobs.

So she started wearing black turtlenecks. And she took her normal voice and she dropped it down to a baritone. And so if you'd search Elizabeth Holmes voice, you'll get to see like all these conspiracy theories where like, you know, they're like, this is her normal voice. And then this, she talks all low like this, and it was all about projecting this confidence and just influencing people.

So ultimately. The story. I mean, the book is bad blood or if you don't feel like you want to read the entire book, the, the podcast is called the dropout, but essentially this whole thing, it got up to $9 billion valuation and then people really started to look at the company and it was a total house of cards, like this little device that they've, they developed, they had it in Walgreens.

It was only able to run seven tests and all those seven tests had like really poor accuracy. I mean, people's lives were at risk. The whole thing crumbled. And so by the end of it, you're like, is this lady a sociopath, a psychopath? I mean, there's lawsuits against her. It's like it's the most amazing book.

But yeah, when I heard she's like a voice coach and how she helps people have influence. I was like, just picturing this, this kind of arch villain, this Elizabeth Holmes, like calling Kelly Tracy Goodwin and being like, how can I influence people better? And Tracy is like, you need to speak like.

Jacques Hopkins: This. Well, Hey, maybe Tracy did coach this Elizabeth Holmes, but, but maybe Tracy's not too proud of that, if that's truly the story that happened.

Very interesting. But yeah, and we talked, I'm glad you brought that up because we talked about all these takeaways, but never really mentioned much about her specific niche, which is very interesting about how she helps people with the way they speak. And, and how that influences what they're trying to do.

Very, very interesting stuff. And, and you know, it kind of made me nervous at first, once I realized that was her topic, I'm like, I just felt like she was going to be judging the way that I was speaking the whole time, you know? So it was, it was a good one, man. Any other takeaways? No, that's it. Cool. Well, thank you so much, David, for joining me for another episode.

Thanks to Tracy for being here with this Steve young for contributing to the one of the week and all of you guys out there. Listening to this. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you as well. We're doing our very best to provide you with, you know, free, authentic, hopefully helpful content here in the world of online courses.

And there's more of that if you had to, the online course, guy.com all kinds of resources for you there. For your online course journey and for all of the notes and links from today's episode, you can find the show notes for this episode by going to the online course, guy.com/one 31 that's gonna do it for this week's episode.

We'll catch you guys next week.