On today’s episode, I’m sitting down to chat with Andrew Seguin about his online course success. Andrew is consistently making five-figures per month with his course. He shares his wisdom on using Facebook ads, fixing your mindset, and more.
Did I mention that Andrew is only 18? There’s so much we can learn from this guy! Enjoy!
“The truth is you can do it… you just have to fix your mindset.”
– Andrew Seguin
In This Episode, We Talked About:
- (0:40) David’s social media detox attempt
- (3:53) Water cooler talk
- (6:18) Piano In 21 Days milestone
- (9:14) Podcast growth for 2020
- (11:48) Introducing Andrew Seguin
- (12:49) Andrew’s story
- (14:18) First glimpse into entrepreneurship
- (16:16) An epiphany moment
- (18:38) YouTube channel revisited
- (19:49) Building on past experience and finding motivation and inspiration
- (23:02) Andrew’s influences and the importance of mindset
- (25:26) Finding success
- (28:50) Another business low
- (30:03) I was funnel-hacked
- (32:00) Facebook ad strategy and testing ads
- (36:52) Andrew shares a student success story
- (37:26) So, what is fingerstyle guitar?
- (39:07) What’s next for Andrew?
- (42:20) Handling the haters
- (44:58) Andrew’s advice on imposter syndrome
- (48:04) Battling the time sucks
- (51:11) Where does Andrew want to be a year from now?
- (53:43) Tools and books Andrew recommends
- (58:49) A last piece of advice
- (1:03:00) What were David and I like at 18?
- (1:04:47) Will my daughters be entrepreneurs?
- (1:07:43) David shares his success with Facebook ads
- (1:14:52) Wrapping up
That’s all for now, folks! See you on the next episode of The Online Course Show.
Offers and Tools:
Resources and Recommendations:
- Freedom App
- The Year of Less
- Nate Dodson’s Microgreens Course
- My interview with Smart Passive Income
- My interview with ChooseFI
- Episode 161
- Episode 164
- Deadline Funnel
- Product Launch Formula
- Deigo Davila’s Udemy Course
- Profit First
- Expert Secrets
- Total Recall
- The Great Brain
- Expert Secrets Watermelon Explosion ad
- Show Her Off
Jacques Hopkins: [00:00:00] Regular people are taking their knowledge and content, packaging it up in an online course and they're making a living doing it, but not everyone is successful with online courses. There's a right way. And there's a wrong way. And I'm here to help course creators actually succeed with online courses. Hi, I'm Jacques Hopkins and this is The Online Course Show.
And off we go. Welcome aboard. Glad you're with us. I'm your host Jacques Hopkins. And over there is our co-host. What is going on Dr. K?
David Krohse: [00:00:40] Oh man. I'm a couple of days into taking all the social media apps off my phone. So if I come across a bit jittery, uh, just a little bit of withdrawals here, so...
Jacques Hopkins: [00:00:50] Whoa. I know what that means, man. You've got a problem. You are an addict. What, tell me how this came about.
David Krohse: [00:00:57] Oh man. Just, uh, I mean we're recording Tuesday morning, but Sunday night it's like a, this is just, I look at it too much. And so I don't actually blame, but I don't actually blame the social medias, but uh, it's the guy in the mirror needed some time off.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:01:12] It's addictive, man. We've talked about that now. Here's a problem. Here's a problem. What people do, what you do, they start on installing their apps. You can install Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and so on. Then that addict just needs to get their fixed. And you just open up your browser and you start going to the websites.
Have you found yourself doing that, where you're just using facebook.com instead of the app?
David Krohse: [00:01:34] Um, yes. So I looked at Facebook some during work yesterday. When I got into my office to record the podcast, I took a quick look and, uh, yeah, but I still had a more productive yet... day yesterday. And I did more reading last night and I, I think I'll keep it off for a few days here.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:01:50] These things are inherently addictive. I haven't had the Facebook app on my phone in a very long time, many years, but I do historically have found myself wanting to just like go to facebook.com. And that's just not a great use of my time on my phone. And so look, I'm going to try to go to facebook.com on my phone right now.
And I know the listeners can't see this, but it redirects to blocked.freedom.to, I guess. And it says, "You are free. Enjoy this moment." So little hack for you, if you find yet that's becoming a problem. There's a great app called Freedom, which will allow you to, well, it'll, it'll actually allow you to block certain apps on your phone, but also certain websites too.
And you can schedule it, right? So if you work a day job and you, you don't want to do those things from, from 8:00 to 5:00, or maybe it's the opposite, and you don't want to do those things outside of your day job, but during your day job, you need that fix. You can schedule it. I just have it, I just have it blocking one site, have it blocking facebook.com and a 24 hours a day. That's just not something I want to be doing on my phone.
David Krohse: [00:02:51] Nice. Well, kind of funny, but the only thing, the closest thing to a social network still on my phone is your Slack channel. So I'm like jumping on your Slack channel, like 12 times a day, like what's going on in here. And it's just like crickets. Uh, your team is very efficient and things are automated.
They're not, there's not tons of conversation needed. And I'm like, oh, maybe there's something new.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:03:15] That's hilarious. And we do a lot in Asana as well. It'd be nice if those apps could, some could be one app instead of two, but a lot of the conversation does happen... Uh, the conversation about like the actual tasks and projects more happens on, on Asana, whereas Slack is more general. So you'll only see a post or two per day, really.
David Krohse: [00:03:34] Right.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:03:35] And you're not, you're not in all the Slack channels, either. Keep that in mind. We've actually got like 15 or 20 different channels and you're only in one or two.
David Krohse: [00:03:42] Oh, gotcha. Yeah. I don't fully understand how Slack works, but yeah, hasn't been super fulfilling from a social perspective. So, back to my books I go.
So what's your water cooler talk for the day?
Jacques Hopkins: [00:03:54] Water cooler talk?
David Krohse: [00:03:55] Yeah, like, uh, like if we were at an office, you know, you catch up at the water cooler.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:04:00] I am so over the cold.
David Krohse: [00:04:03] Yeah.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:04:03] Like this has been a pretty, pretty cold winter so far. And it's just like, it's been in the thirties down here and that's just unaccepted. Like, I, I'm so over it. And, uh, I'm ready to, to get into the spring. So the sooner that can come the better. But I talk about that on the podcast a lot. In fact, I have my space heater going so far up. I don't know if it's affecting the audio quality right now, but it's keeping me toasty back here in my office and I'm just going to keep it on.
David Krohse: [00:04:28] Nice.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:04:29] What about you? What's yours?
David Krohse: [00:04:31] Um, well, the last couple, uh, last couple of recordings were really fun. I thought that I should play them for my wife. And so she was super inspired after hearing your student playing that Billy Joel song. And, uh, she was like, "Now, If somebody doesn't have a piano, like how do they start?"
And I said,"Well, you just got to get on Jacques's list and you can, uh, you can get a recommendation of keyboards. I think they're around $200." And she's like, "Well, I've always kind of dreamed of playing piano." So I'm sitting there thinking like, oh God, here it comes. So if you see a sale, come through from a Val in Iowa, you'll know.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:05:06] If your wife buys my course, in addition to having bought Nate's microgreens course who, if you're not familiar, the, he was on the first 20 episodes of this show, then she might be the official, like biggest fan boy of the podcast, even though I've never actually met her or anything.
David Krohse: [00:05:21] Pretty much. Well, I mean, she, she loves shopping and she's put herself on shopping bans at various times. She read the book The Year Of Less, then she says, I'm not going to buy anything for a full year. And, uh, but, but when she, when she shops, she loves to, she loves to research and just feel like she made the best decision. And so when we were talking about pricing back on the episode with Phil Ebiner, I was just thinking about how she would... if Val will buy, she'll buy your highest end package, because she'll, she'll totally feel like she saved so much money by going with the highest end package.
And I could just see the way that her mind would work. And she'd say, this is... I, I'm so smart because I bought this highest end package where I get the most stuff. And, uh, yeah, I could just totally see it through her eyes.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:06:09] Well, if anybody that buys well, any of my packages, but especially my high-end package is very smart, David. Very, very smart.
David Krohse: [00:06:17] Right.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:06:18] So we, uh, we, you know, just speaking to my course, we just finished a pretty, pretty big milestone, uh, yesterday. And I've talked about it a few times, but the, the bootcamp that I did in 2020 with eight people came into my world and I taught them my 21 day curriculum live over the course of 21 Zoom meetings.
And it was a lot of fun. It was there, there was multiple reasons I wanted to do that. One being that. I wanted to get some direct feedback on my newest curriculum. I revamped the curriculum a little bit. I wanted to test it on some people live, get that feedback. And I did, I'm about to record the new version of my course, and it's going to be very similar to what I taught in the bootcamp, but a few tweaks because I learned how people responded to certain things and in certain orders, the other motivation was that kind of have those recordings as a bonus for, for people that sign up for my course and we just finish very highly producing all of those videos.
David Krohse: [00:07:15] Awesome.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:07:16] It took, it took a long time because it's a, it's a Zoom file. Plus my three camera files in my office, uh, audio files, uh, files with, with fancy notes coming down on the screen and it took my video editor a long time.
It was, it was hard to piece it all together, but, the end product is very, very high quality, and I'm excited to have that asset now as part of my course going forward.
David Krohse: [00:07:40] Awesome. But then you're still going to go back and record the most concise and most effective strategies.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:07:48] Yeah, I, I considered, you know, that being my, the course. Right? But each lesson is in the bootcamp videos is an hour long because there's a lot of, hey, let's go around everybody, tell me how your practice went from last week. Like sometimes we'd spend 30 minutes before we even got into that day's lesson. So I don't know if that's going to be a great way to consume the content for everybody.
Some people it will be, but, uh, for most people, I think 10 to 15 minute video per lesson. Efficient, concise. And then they could always reference the bootcamp videos if they wanted some more information. See what kind of questions people were asking and so on.
David Krohse: [00:08:24] I think that's fantastic. I think that they'll, uh, if you haven't yet, um, really asking each of those people that was in the bootcamp, if they could kind of share their backstory, because I'm just thinking about these people that are following along, like, if I was watching that, I would ultimately, after 21 days of watching these people learn and grow, I would feel like they were my friends. So I would really. I would really want to start out by finding out who they are, what their story is, where they're from. So if you haven't recorded that yet, I think that could be a lot of fun.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:08:52] That's a great point. We actually did a like Day Zero meeting where I didn't teach anything. It was just like to get that information like, hey, what, why haven't you succeed on a piano yet? What's your history? Like, what are your goals? All that we did that call, but we didn't produce that video, but I have it. And I think that might actually be a good, a good thing to add to it, to what we have.
David Krohse: [00:09:11] Sure. I think people would love watching that and watching them grow.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:09:14] Speaking of watching things grow. I wanted to give you an update on the... How do you like that transition? On the podcast growth in 2020?
David Krohse: [00:09:21] Oh yeah. I've been very curious about that. So you had some, you had some appearances on some large podcasts and I'm, I'm interested.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:09:29] Yeah. This, um, this podcast started in 2017 because I thought it would be fun. And I thought it'd be a good way to connect with other course creators. And I didn't really have a, a great vision on, on how, and if I would even monetize it one day, but it's, it's, it's been fun through the years as it, as it evolved.
And 2020 was certainly a great year for The Online Course Show. Going into the year, we'd get 500 to 1000 downloads per episode and we're consistently getting more like 2000 downloads per episode these days. So it's not like astronomical growth or anything, but it's slow and steady growth. And there was a couple of larger podcasts that I appeared on this year.
Smart Passive Income. Or last year. Uh, Smart Passive Income with Pat Flynn and ChooseFI with um, with Jonathan Mendoza and Brad. And that definitely brought in a lot of people into my, into my world. And I think that is one of the best ways to grow a podcast is to appear on other podcasts. And so there was definitely spikes through the year, those couple of times when I appeared on those other podcasts.
But other than that, it's just been slow and steady growth. And, and lately, just every time we release a new episode, it gets more downloads than the one before. So hopefully more and more people are listening.
David Krohse: [00:10:44] Very cool.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:10:45] Yeah. But since we started, I certainly have found ways to monetize this in a way that that helps the listener. And, and one of those ways is my program called Next Level Courses. It started, I'm sure you remember, it started as just like a higher ticket, more one-on-one program back in early 2019. So two years ago. It was a $5,800 program. And several people went through, represents success rate on those, but I mean, people had no choice, but to be successful when I was holding their hands that much.
And, uh, that was fun, but it was also a lot of, you know, I, I try to have as few of just like set meetings, recurring meetings every week, as few as possible. And because I want to have as much freedom as possible. And so that's the main reason I stopped that more intensive version of it, but I relaunched it a few months ago.
I think it was July of 2020 to be more of kind of a group coaching programs and prerecorded training. And that's been going really well. We have 75 members in Next Level Courses. You're Next Level Courses.
David Krohse: [00:11:47] Yes I am.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:11:48] And so is Andrew Seguin. Andrew Seguin, uh, joined when I relaunched it back in July and he has been consuming all the content. And, uh, he implemented almost everything in the training. And then anytime he got stuck or had a question, he would jump on the Q&A with me and ask it. We'd have our five minutes together, you know, every week, every other week, whenever he wanted to jump on. And, um, he's only 18 years old.
He's only 18 years old. He makes several thousand dollars a month from his fingerstyle guitar course. And every time I talked to him, I'm just, I'm inspired. It's amazing. I wish I was like that when I was his age. And I know, you know Andrew a little bit. I mean, his story is pretty inspiring. Don't you think?
David Krohse: [00:12:32] It's pretty epic. Definitely.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:12:35] All right. Well, there's all the lead up. So without further ado, here's the full conversation between myself and Andrew.
What's going on Andrew. Welcome to The Online Course Show.
Andrew Seguin: [00:12:46] Welcome. Thanks for having me on today.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:12:49] So let's just start with the story, man. How did you get into online courses?
Andrew Seguin: [00:12:53] Okay. So online courses for me, it's been... It's been a long journey for me getting up to this point. It wasn't something that I just like hit on.
I've been building the skills to do it for like a really long time, because my niche, I do fingerstyle guitar. I teach fingerstyle guitar online and obviously that's not something that you can just, you know, pick up. I have been playing guitar my whole life and it actually started when I was eight years old.
That's when I started playing guitar and I was... actually when I first started, I really hated it. That's the truth. Right. But I kept going with it and then I ended up getting into YouTube. So I started making YouTube videos and I would grind really hard on that. So there's one point where I was making like two YouTube videos a day and I was really into the side of just working hard on that.
And then I remember at 10 years old, one part is...
Jacques Hopkins: [00:13:55] Whoa, whoa, whoa. You started your YouTube channel at eight years old?
Andrew Seguin: [00:13:58] No, no. I started guitar at eight
Jacques Hopkins: [00:14:00] Ok.
Andrew Seguin: [00:14:01] And then my YouTube, I think I posted my first YouTube video when I was around 10 or 11 and they were terrible videos. Like, I I'll say that right off. I have 30 you cannot find them online. They're all privated, but that's, that's when it started.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:14:18] Got it.
Andrew Seguin: [00:14:18] Yeah. And then when I was 10, one thing that I think is interesting, it's how I got into like entrepreneurship or the first like glimpse into entrepreneurship was I remember like sitting in my bed one time and then I was like on YouTube and I got this, one of those like ads from one of those like internet gurus, I think it was like Tai Lopez.
You know who that is? I got that. I remember I was like 10 years old and I know that's the ad everyone talks about, but I saw it. And I was like really intrigued by it, you know, by all like the books and everything. And I know he did that on purpose, but I was really into it. So I saw that and I'm like, that's what I want to do.
I want to figure out a way to actually be an entrepreneur and do it that way. So I started grinding with YouTube for a while. One of my biggest inspirations was Arnold Schwarzenegger and he would really, you know, just push me and it really, you know, helped me that way. And I kept doing YouTube and till I was about 15, I never ended up getting popular at it, like still, I think the most I got, I was like 900 subscribers, a couple of thousand views, but it was something that really helped me later on because it gave me, you know, the skills and the habits that would help me with online courses.
So when I was 15, I opened up my first actual store online, I opened up... It wasn't a core store. It was like an e-commerce drop shipping store because I saw that as a way to make money online. And I was interested in that and I ended up making three different stores. Each one of them wasn't super successful.
I sold all of them. They had really good conversion rates and stuff, but at the end of it, I realized that I just wasn't helping anyone. Really all I'm doing is, you know, getting an item from China, making a website and then selling it. And it wasn't really bringing any like transformation to anyone. So after that I sold my stores and I kind of had like an epiphany moment, one time where I saw, I heard about online courses.
And then I thought, what if I could, you know, bring in all the video editing that I, all the video editing skills I got from my YouTube, I could bring in all my guitar knowledge. And I could bring in my like website design skills and put it all together. And then I launched my first course. I spent like five months going at it.
And then I launched it when I was 17, about a year, almost two years ago. And that is how I started with online courses. I have to say when I first started, it was pretty terrible. Just looking back on my first web pages, my first videos. But, you know, I kept trying, kept trying, I ended up finding Jacques and he's helped me through it.
So that's how I got the start. I know there was a lot going on and it's very confusing, but yeah, that's about it.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:17:10] And how old are you now?
Andrew Seguin: [00:17:11] I'm 18 for the current time.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:17:15] Okay. So you're 18. Um, wow. What kind of, what kind of e-commerce stores were these? What, what kind of stuff were you selling?
Andrew Seguin: [00:17:22] I was selling like little guitar, like little, um, gadgets. The first thing I sold was guitar capos. And I did the whole like free plus shipping thing and I had a store that was called Cool Capos. And then I would just sell capos online. And I had that. And then I had another one where I was just little guitar... I sold mini guitars for awhile. I actually got a lot of sales on that. It was, it was a lot of fun.
And then I opened up one store, um, the last one I opened was like selling mugs, like coffee mugs. Yeah. And then that one I closed pretty quick, because I'm like, it was just, I don't know, it wasn't for me, but yeah. So I was selling like little guitar things and I did pretty good at it because I had all this video editing skill.
And, um, another thing about me is I actually, um, work like a part-time for a video place too, which helped me with a lot of my video skills. So yeah, it was a lot of fun and those are the e-commerce stores that I did.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:18:21] And you said you sold them. Who did you sell them to?
Andrew Seguin: [00:18:24] I just, um, I just sold them online too. There's like this one site where you can like sell your Shopify stores. I only sold them for like 500 bucks each. It wasn't like I sold them for like thousands, but yeah. I ended up selling them, which I thought it was cool.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:18:38] And the YouTube channel that you had started back when you were 10 years old, is that the same one that you have today or is that a separate channel?
Andrew Seguin: [00:18:44] No, no. It's the same oneI have today, most of the stuff, like I said, it was privated, but... Yeah, it's the same one. I started way back way back then.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:18:53] Okay. And what, what kind of videos were you putting out there? You hadn't, you hadn't thought about an online course yet you were just putting out you playing songs on the guitar. Is that what you're doing?
Andrew Seguin: [00:19:01] Yeah. Yeah. So the first videos I would make, well, it wasn't all just guitar because I was a, a 10 year old kid. I started out with making like different covers with guitar. Cool thing was, I used to like make guitars with like my dad and my grandpa used to make some cool stuff on there. And, um, I did that for a while then obviously as a 10 year old kid, I have some friends made some funny videos of my friends here and there.
Some like cool skits, but then I kind of moved to for the most part was guitar covers fingerstyle guitar covers. So I'd either make my own arrangements on fingerstyle guitar, which I teach now, or I'd do covers of other people. And then I'd make these really cool music videos. So I'd have like a cool audio from it and then I'd take different angles and mash it up together. So yeah, a couple of different...
Jacques Hopkins: [00:19:49] I love how all the experience, even though all of it, I mean, you're still incredibly young, but all the experience just built upon each other. And continues to build upon each other. It's not like you had zero experience in entrepreneurship and online business. And then all of a sudden, you, you created a course, like at 10 years old, you started a YouTube channel, started editing videos.
You had e-commerce stores drop shipping and all that you, so you knew how to make videos. You knew how to be on camera. You knew how to make websites. And, um, so this, the success that you've found so far with courses, certainly isn't an accident, but at 10 years old, and really at any age, Andrew, like it's hard to be a producer of content.
It's way easier to consume content. That's why so many people will just pick up their phone and like flick through it. They're just, they're consuming content, but especially at 10 years old, like what, what motivated you to want to make so much of the content?
Andrew Seguin: [00:20:42] Um, like I said it was that, um, it's kind of funny. It's that one, it's that one video. One of the things that motivated me the most was like, I saw that one video of like, I'm sure everyone knows the video of like Tai Lopez in his garage.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:20:56] Yeah! It's the one with the Lamborghini, right?
Andrew Seguin: [00:20:57] With the Lamborghini.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:20:58] And the books.
Andrew Seguin: [00:21:00] And the books. And then I remember after that I ordered like a whole bunch of books.
I still have them, the first books I got with me. And, um, it was that, and it was, I was, and I still am obsessed with Arnold Schwarzenegger. I would just...
Jacques Hopkins: [00:21:12] Well, you look just like him.
Andrew Seguin: [00:21:13] I know. I'm working on, um, my arms are just as big. I would like listen to his stuff all the time. And that was what really motivated me to really go forward with it because I saw how hard working he was, and I knew that I wanted to be like, just like it.
And I also had expectations when I was like really young, because I remember looking at like how young they started. Like I would look at like, like how young did you know he started working out or how young did a lot of these people start with their stuff. And they started when they were like really young too.
Not saying you can't start when you're older, but I noticed that if I would start young, I wouldn't be successful right away, but it would help me later on.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:21:54] So, what was it about specifically about that Tai Lopez video? And for those that aren't familiar with it, it's, it came out years ago and it was, it was an ad. I think he ran everywhere and you know, he's always, he's always struck me as a little, a little slimy, right? He's just like, look at this, look at this car that I've been able to afford. Right? This Lamborghini. Was it the car itself? It's like, oh, I need to find a path to where I can afford cars like that?
Andrew Seguin: [00:22:19] Um, it wasn't, it wasn't that because it's not all about the cars obviously and that, and I've seen, you know, that video.
That's like, I watched a couple of things that dive into just that one ad. And it's like one of the most psychological trick videos that you can find out there. But most of the, most of it was, it was just like, you know, the books and consuming knowledge that way I'd say.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:22:42] What do you mean by psychological tricks?
Andrew Seguin: [00:22:44] Well, the video it's, um, he does a lot of, uh, camera tricks in it. Like he starts off with the Lamborghini and then shows the books, which then you psychologically are like, okay, if I get the books, I get the Lamborghini. And then he has like the average Joe effect, which is the shirt. There's a whole bunch in that video. It's crazy.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:23:02] Are, are there any influences, uh, entrepreneurial influences in your personal life, right? Family, friends. Is there anybody around you locally that that helped motivate you to want to go down this?
Andrew Seguin: [00:23:17] Um, I don't really know anyone who's super like entrepreneurship in my family at all. They've always been super supporting and motivating of me.
But I haven't been, you know, really the people around me personally, haven't been super entrepreneurship. I think the thing is, it's like that everyone says like your environment is your success, right? They're like the average of your five people as we hear a million times. I think that the reason that I was so entrepreneurship is because I'm surrounding myself with people online.
Like, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger, like all these gurus online who were entrepreneurs. And I was reading the books of people who were, and that's where the entrepreneurship mindset came from, I'd say more online.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:23:58] Got it. So, so what do, what, what were your friends thinking like 12, 13, 14 years old? What, what were they thinking about? The things you were doing?
Andrew Seguin: [00:24:07] It was always really private about all of it. I never really talked to my friends because they didn't really understand, like, I'd mentioned it a few times and I'd just be like, okay, well, whatever, you know, they just don't didn't understand. So I wouldn't really tell them, like, I remember starting like a YouTube with my friends and stuff and just the goals were always different.
You know, I always wanted something that was bigger. Like I'm like, okay, let's do this. Let's get a million subscribers, stuff like that. And they're like, oh no, let's just do this for fun. Like I remember I was always just wanted a lot. I'd say. And I never really told my friends because when I did, they never understood. And there was all that right now. It's different now. I got like, good friends.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:24:44] Yeah. Well what about now? I mean, you're 18 years old and you found some success with your, um, with your guitar, fingerstyle guitar online course. What do your friends and family think today? Like, are they just like blown away by what you're doing?
Andrew Seguin: [00:24:56] Yeah. Well, um, at first, obviously when I, when I started it, a lot of people like, especially like my family, they don't understand because they're like, oh, it's a scam. It's, it's not going to work. But now that they see the results and they see how it's working, I mean, my friends and family, they're like, they're really motivated.
And they're like, good job. And they, um, they really like it. My friends too. Um, I have a lot of good friends now who are kind of entrepreneurship, so they helped me, too, that way. So it's a lot different now than it's going to having that environment.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:25:26] All right. So let's, let's get back into the story, um, and focus in on the, uh, the online course chapter of all of it. You said you took about five months to launch that first version and you said it wasn't very good. Right? So what, or when did you first really find success with your online course?
Andrew Seguin: [00:25:43] Um, well, I'll, I'll tell the story of my, when I launched my course, I didn't get my first sale until like a month after. I remember. It was a long time and I still remember the first sale. I got home from like, like a swim thing. And then I remember getting the first sale. It was like 300 bucks. And I was like, I thought I was like a millionaire when I got that first sale. But, um...
Jacques Hopkins: [00:26:05] Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. So you're like what? Like a junior in high school, right? Or maybe senior?
Andrew Seguin: [00:26:11] Yeah, no, I w I was in, um, I think it was the RADA. It was a, a junior. Yeah.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:26:18] Okay. So you're a junior junior in high school, and I know you're in Canada and I don't know if the school system is the same, like grade wise here, but that's, you know, if you're 17 years old, that's, that's where you'd be in the United States, roughly, but you're just going, you're doing some extracurricular activity and you come home and find that after a month of, I would imagine anguish, like I spent five months on this thing and now it's been a month and nobody's bought it, you're probably kind of upset about it.
Andrew Seguin: [00:26:41] Oh yeah. Well, I want, I want to quit because I sunk like $400 into ads, which was like my entire account at that time. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to quit this isn't for me.
And yeah, it was like, when, when that hit it's like, it still is an amazing feeling when you get a sale now, every single time.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:26:59] What was your, what was your strategy back then? Like, did you have an email list? Did you do a specific launch strategy or were you just kind of putting things out there and see what would stick?
Andrew Seguin: [00:27:07] Well, my strategy was, I just had like the same, I kind of had the same ebook. It was like, it wasn't as good of an offer or it wasn't as good as like an ebook and stuff. And I just had my ad that got the emails. It didn't go into like an automated email sequence launch. I just got all the emails. And then it would just send out like videos or send out emails here and there on MailChimp.
And then I would do like a launch there. I I'm, and then I had Teachable to which me and you, but can share a hatred for Teachable, but I had that. And then I would just shoot them to Teachable where I have my sales page. And it was like, looking back. I have no idea even how I got a sale on that page. Because it was absolutely terrible.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:27:52] So it was most of the traffic coming from YouTube, or were you paying?
Andrew Seguin: [00:27:55] My email list. I was paying for emails.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:27:57] You were paying, you were using Facebook ads.
Andrew Seguin: [00:28:00] Yeah. I was using Facebook ads.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:28:01] To build up your email list and then you would market the course via email.
Andrew Seguin: [00:28:04] Yeah. Because like, because when I was doing e-commerce I, um, or e-comm, I had Facebook ad experience from that. So that's what I started, I knew how to do Facebook ads. So I was doing that once I closed down my stores.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:28:17] So the learning how to create a YouTube channel, edit videos, do Facebook ads, like, did you go through online courses to learn this stuff or did you just kind of get in the platforms and just learn it on your own?
Andrew Seguin: [00:28:29] No, I, um, well the editing, I would watch like videos on YouTube, free videos on YouTube, the course I, I bought an actual e-comm course and that's how I learned Facebook ads.
And then all my guitar, I do guitar lessons for that. So that's how I learned all that. And I still am. So yeah, that's, there's been a lot that has gone into it.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:28:50] Okay. So you get the first sale after you went swimming with your friends and you're on top of the world. You felt like a millionaire. What happens next in the story?
Andrew Seguin: [00:29:00] Oh, it's another low. I don't get any sales for a little while. And then I think that was at the point where I started doing the sequence. So I think this is at the point where I found the launch thing online. And then I put that into my funnel. I did it in MailChimp, which really wasn't working out. And...
Jacques Hopkins: [00:29:21] What do you mean by launch thing? Like, explained that for us.
Andrew Seguin: [00:29:23] Oh yeah. Sorry. It's the video launch thing.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:29:26] So like Product Launch Formula?
Andrew Seguin: [00:29:28] Yeah. And I was doing the Product Launch Formula, but doing it with, um, no videos. So I was just doing text and it didn't really work that well. I was probably getting, I'm pretty sure at that point, I wasn't, I was like breaking even with my sales still.
So I wasn't making a lot of money at that point. And then, um, keep going forward. I kept learning more. I kept looking at books, redoing my sales page. I've redone my sales pages, like probably 10 times. But I kept redoing it and then it just, you know, kept getting better. My ad cost was lower. And then I think that was at the point where I found you.
I found the guy who made a million dollars selling piano courses online. I still don't remember how I found you, but I remember finding you. And then I remember going into your, um, email sequence and then that's how I learned how to do it the proper way.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:30:24] So you funnel hacked me.
Andrew Seguin: [00:30:25] I funnel hacked you, Jacques. It comes out. And at that point is when I started, uh, you know, make more money with my stuff. I still, um, was only probably making a couple thousand dollars in revenue, not even much profit at that point. And then it was like that for a while. I opened up a membership, which I was selling to. I. It was really cheap for all the people saying who they can't afford the main course, which is like $207 or $297 to $497.
And I kept that growing and it was slowly growing until I actually joined Next Level Courses. Right. And when I joined Next Level Courses and got all the guidance, I mean, that's when my revenue shot up and I think it pretty much doubled the first month and then it doubled again. And it's been kind of like that for the last few months when I'm redoing all my videos and stuff.
And then like we were talking about, I hit that one month where it has the potential of if everyone follows through on their payment plans, like $5,000. So now it's going really good. And I'm so excited to see really what the future holds with all this.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:31:33] So you're up to, I mean, $5,000 is, is basically your best month, but you're, you're consistently making like four figures a month.
Andrew Seguin: [00:31:40] Oh yeah.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:31:41] With online courses as an 18 year old.
Andrew Seguin: [00:31:43] Oh yeah. It's consistent. Yeah. I'm doing, doing a lot.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:31:46] Now, one thing I've been trying to get you to do is get more of your traffic from organic sources versus just paid. At this point is it fair to say that still, like all of your traffic is, is like Facebook ads?
Andrew Seguin: [00:31:57] Yeah, pretty much all my traffic is coming from Facebook ads right now.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:32:01] That's still a very impressive that you're able to be so profitable, um, even though all of your traffic is, is paid. And I know you're working on still growing the YouTube channel. What is your, I mean, not, not, not many people find success with Facebook ads. Like what is your Facebook ad strategy?
Andrew Seguin: [00:32:17] All right. So, um, well that's a great question.
My Facebook ad strategy I learned from e-comm and it's very simple. It's very simple. So what I did is I collect, go for a conversion pipe and then you go for lead. But the strategy is, um, you start out with all your different creatives, which is, you know, your ads, your videos, your pictures. And then you get a whole bunch of different copies for your ads, and then you make an ad and then you make like 10 different ads and you make like 10 different ad sets that are at $5 a day with everything being a little different, like a little different interest, a little different, you know, headline and everything's a little different and you run that for $5 a day or $10 a day, if you want to get it quicker.
And then the next day you look back and you can see what is, you know, going good. So I kill all of my bad ad sets. I keep my good ones going, duplicate them. And then when you duplicate it, you can always up the budget and the main thing with ads... and I think Dean Grasiozi has a great quote on this is you need to test like crazy on them if you do your own ads. I think the quote that Dean Grasiozi says, he tests like new ads every single day. Like no matter what, he's testing a new ad and he's one of the most successful knowledge people out there.
And my strategy is you keep duplicating, you keep trying new things and you scale by duplicating and adding the budget. Now, one thing I'd say to new people about that is, I don't know if I'd, um, do ads myself, if I was completely new to them, like, I think a lot of people who are completely new to courses where they've never done ads, I think sometimes it might be worth it just doing an agency out of it because ads do take a long time to learn. Yeah.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:34:01] Yeah. When you, and especially when you could be, you know, making courses, putting other, other content out there, um, but you had the advantage of, of having learned it already from your previous businesses and I like what you're saying about, I mean, basically what I'm hearing from you is sort of, as far as your strategy is we create a lot of, we create a lot of different types of ads and have a very low budget for each one, just so we can see which ones are starting to get traction, which ones are converting better than others.
And then we can figure out what's working in some of them what's not working and really, you know, kind of 80/20 it, and, um, and scale up the ones that are working. I think that's probably one of the biggest areas that people fail with ads is they go in there like create one ad. Right.
Andrew Seguin: [00:34:42] Exactly. Yeah.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:34:43] And spend 50 bucks a day. One ad. It's like, that's not how ads work, right.
Andrew Seguin: [00:34:47] No. Yeah, exactly. Because when you just do that, it's like, what if there's something wrong with that one ad you're going to think it's it's um, failing, right. That's why you need to see what interests are perfect for it. You can test ages, you can test literally everything.
A funny story is when I started my business, when I started Master Fingerstyle Guitar, if it wasn't for ad testing, if it wasn't for talking to my customers, I would have no idea who my customer is because when I started, I started as targeting young people my age, who want to play guitar at parties and impress girls.
That's how I started my, because I thought that's who my person is going to be. My target market. But it turned out once I did my ads, I found out that my audience was 60 year old guys who are retired, who want to relax at home. You know what I mean? So you'll learn a lot from that testing too.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:35:38] Yeah, absolutely. When I started, I was in my mid twenties when I started, I just assumed it would be people like me. Right. Mid twenties, just like hobby after work type thing. And like you had discovered, that was quite not true. It's my audience is also a lot older, but yours is even more pronounced because you're, you were even younger than I was.
And you just assumed it would be people, people your age, but I'm not surprised that that's not the case. I mean, I doubt, that 17 year olds, uh, want to spend $300 or $500 on any sort of course. I mean, you, look, you learn a lot of what you know, from, from YouTube yourself. Whereas the, the older generation has more money and, and is maybe more willing to spend, um, spend money on a, on a course like that.
So, but it's great that you did what you needed to do to figure that out. And so at this point, how many, how many students would you say you have roughly?
Andrew Seguin: [00:36:29] Um, I'd say I have a couple hundred students. My membership's over a hundred people right now. It's about, um, as a, when we're recording this, it's at about 130 people and my course I've had a couple hundred enrollments in it over, you know, how I've started it, but it's, you know, exponentially growing. So each month I get more people who are coming into it, but yeah.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:36:52] Well it's, as you know, I like to highlight, not just like your story, but, you know, part of this is helping others. You even mentioned that earlier. I mean, is there a story from somebody inside your course, somebody that's taken your course that's, that's had pretty good results you could share with us?
Andrew Seguin: [00:37:05] Yeah. Well, there was one person, one story that I really like is someone who took the course and then was, you know, playing it to like their mother, was playing their fingerstyle guitar to their mother. And then they're like, well, you can do that? And that's one of my favorite stories. And then a lot of people, it's just, they're just doing it for fun. They're just doing it to relax.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:37:26] What is fingerstyle guitar, fingerstyle guitar?
Andrew Seguin: [00:37:30] Um, that's a great question. It's any type of guitar where you're playing it with just your fingers. So you're not picking on the guitar, you are just using your fingers. It can count as a classical guitar. It can count as... I could teach how to do arrangements of like popular songs on guitar. And it's anything like that.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:37:48] So it's not just strumming chords. It's actually like picking the individual strings with your fingers.
Andrew Seguin: [00:37:54] Yeah. It's the complete opposite of strumming chords. I don't teach that. It's only finger-picking. It's um, I could, I mean, I could pull my guitar and play to that listening right now.
It's it's, you're picking on the guitar. You're not using, um, strumming. You're not using a pick. And you're just using your fingers.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:38:11] Now, is that, is that just the style that you have always enjoyed and played, or did you do some sort of market research and figure out that there was a need for this?
Andrew Seguin: [00:38:18] Well, um, no, that was the one that I was the best at. I always learned that one. That's the one that I've always been, um, playing the most. I started out on electric picking guitar and then after I quit guitar, which is in my, you know, the whole hero story. After that I picked up classical guitar, which is fingerstyle guitar. And I kept learning that. And then I got really good at that.
And I started to learn this other type, which is like playing arrangements on acoustic guitar, which is fingerstyle guitar, it's the same thing. And that was what I got really good at. And not a lot of people are, can get like really good and teach that. There's some other really good fingerstyle teachers on the internet, but I noticed that I could, you know, try to fill that and not a lot of people could do that through the video, through the website. So I thought that would be a great one to try to hit.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:39:07] Very cool. So I've, I've mentioned on the podcast several times that if I had to do things over again, I probably would not have attended college. It's a little unfair because I have the, the, I mean I'm 35 years old now and I have the knowledge and experience, and I know what I've been able to do, but I'm not necessarily, I don't necessarily advise like, nobody to go to college.
There's a time and a place, but, um, you're in a position where just a year ago you were in high school, I'm assuming. And so what's, what's your like kind of life and life path looking like these days. Are you, are you in college? Are you taking classes or are you just like full steam ahead with your business?
Andrew Seguin: [00:39:43] Yeah. Well, my goal is to create the biggest fingerstyle guitar school on the internet. That's my goal. And. I also like, I'm going to be releasing a fingerstyle album because I do producing in a few months. So my goal is to do that and do music too, and have my own niche. I'm not going to be singing, but I'm going to be doing fingerstyle guitar and pushing that. And it can help me with my course too.
Currently I am enrolled in Music in post-secondary. It was more of something like, you know, they're like, like my parents wanted me to go to school and I figured I got, they gave me a little scholarship to go this first year. So I'm here at the moment in a post-secondary school.
I don't know where I'm going to go because I really want to take this to the next level. And yeah, that's where I'm at. I really, really want to take this. Really want to create a very good program.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:40:34] What's your, what's your why? Like you said, you want the, your, your biggest goal is to have the biggest fingerstyle guitar resource or course on the planet. Uh, why though?
Andrew Seguin: [00:40:45] I'd love to just be able to, you know, do what I want and be able to have freedom. That's the main thing with, um, pretty much everyone's why. And, um, I'd really like to be able to do music, like I said. Really be able, if I can take this and take it to the next level, then I can put out, you know, the music that want to make the albums I want to make and do that and have the freedom to not have to, you know, be stuck somewhere or something like that. And obviously there's a whole thing, like I want to help as many people in fingerstyle guitar as possible, because it is really nice when you see someone and you've changed their life with your online course. And it's awesome to see that. And if I can do that to as many people as I can, it's, it's awesome.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:41:28] It's a great feeling, right? I mean, I wonder when I get one of my students, like either sending me, um, an email with like a video. I love just seeing videos of my students playing and we can, you know, we can relate on that since we're both teaching a musical instrument. So whether they email me a video or they post it to the Facebook group, I always just, it's just such an emotional experience for me to see somebody who 21 days ago, a couple months ago, or even a year ago, wasn't playing anything. And now they're playing songs on the piano because they took my online course. Do you, do you get that as well? When you see things like that, like, does it hit you like at an emotional level?
Andrew Seguin: [00:42:03] It does because it's like it in, you've helped them do that. Especially when, you know, like you see that you get like the, uh, you know, the haters online too and stuff. And then when you see that it's like, yeah, it's going to be okay. So yeah, that's what I really love.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:42:20] Do you get a lot of haters?
Andrew Seguin: [00:42:21] I don't get, like, I don't, the only haters I get are like every once in awhile, someone will comment on like the Facebook ad and be like, "Oh, it's a scam," or something like that. Like I get stuff.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:42:31] How do you handle that?
Andrew Seguin: [00:42:32] I, or the are people say like, "Oh, they never sent me my ebook," or whatever. I'll just like hide the comment and then I'll message them privately. Be like, "Um, why is it a scam?" And I'll send them the ebook there. And then people just hate... GImme insults on my Facebook ads, call me a little kid and stuff like that, which is true. But they shouldn't tell me that.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:42:53] Do you remove those as well?
Andrew Seguin: [00:42:54] Um, I mean, why not? I'll remove them.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:42:58] I would, um, I would argue that you might want to leave them. I, I there's very, very rarely, unless it's just some like blatant, just like abuse or harassment. I'll almost always leave comments like that because it, it gives... it it's public and it gives you the opportunity to like take the higher ground and show how you respond.
Not only to the positive comments, to the negative comments as well. And I think that when people are looking at my Facebook ads or my YouTube channel or something, and they see my replies to all, all different tones, I think people appreciate that.
Andrew Seguin: [00:43:31] Yeah, definitely. That that would be a good idea. And I I've even, that reminds me of like, when I heard something like how Nike keeps up their negative reviews and like boosted their conversion rates.
I don't know how true that is. I heard that off some podcast. But I think the negative reviews thing could help. And I'll um, I'll do that. I see you do that on, um, cause I've seen that on your Trustpilot too, when I've looked at it.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:43:50] Yeah.
Andrew Seguin: [00:43:50] We keep everything on there and you apply always super, super nice to them and say like, um, I think it's your fault. So not that, but I think it's like, you know what I mean?
Jacques Hopkins: [00:44:01] Yeah. Yeah. Just, I mean, that's, that's my that's my perspective is, I think that you're, you're doing a disservice to your customers and potential customers if you just eliminate or remove all the negative stuff. I think people, if you're doing things right, you're always going to have haters.
You're going to always gonna have people commenting in a negative light, and it just makes you come across as even more real if you leave them up and just reply. I mean, some, somebody, you know, one of my favorite quotes is like, "People are not against you, they're for themselves." And they might just be having a bad day.
And then they're scrolling through Facebook. It's like, oh, look at 18 year old kids who teach in guitar. Like there's no way this is real. Let me, I'm having a bad day. So let me, let me make his day bad too, you know?
Andrew Seguin: [00:44:39] Yeah, no, I agree. Like the whole thing about people who hate online, they're not hating you. They never hate you. It's always themself. That's the truth.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:44:47] Yeah.
Andrew Seguin: [00:44:48] Something going on with them.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:44:49] A lot of times they wouldn't say that same stuff to your face. Like if they were in, in person.
Andrew Seguin: [00:44:53] No, never, never. You need haters because it shows you're having success all the time.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:44:58] Yeah. Um, do you ever get imposter syndrome? Like who am I to be out here teaching 60 year old men? How to play guit... or not just men, I guess, 60 year old people, um, how to play guitar when I'm only 18?
Andrew Seguin: [00:45:11] It feels sometimes you get like, "Is this really true?" Especially when you're young. And you really need to just fix that. Like anyone who's 18 or anyone who's young and you have like the limiting belief, like why can I do this? I'm only 18. And if you're young, you'll have the same thing, but the truth is you can do it, if you, you just have to fix your mindset. So eventually, like, sometimes it'll be like, you'll have those limiting beliefs that you can't do it because you're young or that it's not because you're young, but if you put in the work and if you show yourself that you can do it, if you have the proof and everything, then that's where it's possible and where it's okay.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:45:49] What would you say to, what would you say to a 40 year old person listening to this? Who's got the imposter syndrome, like from your perspective, what, what advice would you give to that person?
Andrew Seguin: [00:45:57] Oh, it's all about the mindset. That's all it is. It's literally all about the mindset. And that's one thing that I wish I would have had younger doing courses or when I first started doing courses, the mindset that, you know, like seeing yourself succeeding and knowing that you can succeed and knowing that what you're offering is worth value.
And that's what I'd say to someone who's 40. That you got to change your mindset. You have to know that what you're doing is, is right.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:46:21] Just believe in yourself.
Andrew Seguin: [00:46:23] That's and it's the same thing you hear a million times over and over, but it's true. And you need to actually not just say it needs to believe it in your mind. Believe that you actually can do something. Yeah.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:46:34] All right. So at this point, at this point with where you are with everything, like what is, what does a typical workday look like for you? What, what are the things that you're doing?
Andrew Seguin: [00:46:41] So my workday always starts... I need to be more consistent with my wake up time. I'll say that. I, before the pandemic, I was waking up at sometimes like 5:00 in the morning for a couple of weeks and it actually felt good. After the pandemic or once it started, I mean, like going to bed at like 5:00 in the morning. So I'll usually wake up when I wake up. I like to on, a good day, I like to meditate.
I like to journal if I'm feeling it. And then I will, um, you know, get on my day. I will do all my computer work in the morning. I'll send an email if that is, um, what I'm doing that day. I'll work on my ads, look at them and make sure they're doing good. And I'll always have my day scheduled up before. I like to say what I want to do the day before.
And let's say I have videos. I do that. And I like to also work out like five days a week to keep that going, because I feel like that really helps. And you know, if you have a healthy body, it always helps. And at night is when I also do a lot of my work. I'll either be practicing guitar, super hardcore, like for a couple hours, or I'll be working on my computer super hardcore. I think my most productive hours are at night because that's when it's just me. There's no one around me. I know some people like it in the morning, but I like it at night. So that's what I would do at night. I'd be working, figuring out new strategies, watching videos and all that.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:48:04] Are you, um, are you pretty motivated? Um, good with self-discipline or do you find you you'll get sucked in to just like a Netflix binge and be like, ah, what am I doing? I should be working on my guitar stuff?
Andrew Seguin: [00:48:14] Netflix. I, I mean, yeah, sometimes. Like I'm not perfect. Sometimes I'll get sucked into a Twitter conversation for 20 minutes, just seeing people argue or I'll go on social media too much.
Right? And I do get sucked in sometimes. I have blockers that I put on a lot of days where I just like, if I go on social media, I'll just like kick me out and like, say, "Get back to work," and stuff like that. But most of the time, or sometimes I get sucked in and most of the time I'm very productive though.
And I won't be on there that much. I watch Netflix sometimes. I usually watch only watch it when I'm like practicing guitar, which I know it keeps me going longer so I can practice look over like that. How much do you, do you get sucked into it sometimes, Jacques?
Jacques Hopkins: [00:48:56] I mean, I'm just like comparing my current situation, your current situation. And it's so different because I've got kids, I've got a wife, you know, of. Um, my business is a different place than yours. I've got a team as well, but I don't have as many hours in the day as you. Right. And so I'm just curious if you're actually, can you actually put in like 16, 18 hour work days or are you a, like, do you have a lot of typical 18 year old in you?
I mean, I remember what I was like at 18. I wasn't doing, I wasn't worried about when I was waking up. I mean, I would, I was a freshman in college and I would, I would sleep through my alarm and miss classes. Like I was bad at just skipping classes in college. Like I was, I did not have a good head on my shoulders at 18, like you... like you seem to.
Andrew Seguin: [00:49:41] Yeah, well, no, I've, I've definitely been keeping it up now. I'm gonna, I'm trying to cut my alarm back because I've noticed too, when I wake up at the same time every day, if you're younger, you, um, I think that's something you should definitely try to do then you're more productive at it. Right?
But I mean, it's, everyone has their own thing. I definitely have some typical 18, like every 18 year old has, in me, but I also think I have some 30 year old in me, too, where I'm willing to put in the work because I have put in eight, 10 hour days in the past.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:50:12] Thirties probably sound so old to you.
Andrew Seguin: [00:50:15] Yeah.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:50:16] I wish I was 30 again.
Andrew Seguin: [00:50:17] Talking to an old guy. No, I'm joking.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:50:20] So what are you, so let's, let's talk about your, like the current state of your online course business. Like what are you, what are you struggling with?
Andrew Seguin: [00:50:25] Um, right now, I I'd say I am... I'm just trying to boost my conversion rates more because I'm getting like two times return on investment. It's going pretty good.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:50:36] Meaning you spend a dollar, usually make $2 back.
Andrew Seguin: [00:50:39] Yeah. Right now I'm working on my, the ads have been a really, um, they've been going up and down recently, so I've been trying to keep my costs at the same as it has been for, you know, the past like year, because of everything that goes on, eventually your ads can go up, you know, like double the cost per lead.
And then that'll make it so your conversion rate, even though it's the same, you won't be making money. So I'm working really hard on toning my ads down and making them still at the same cost because it's been going... With everything going on, it's been going a little crazy, but it's coming back now.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:51:11] Where do you see this going? Right? Let's let's pretend that we wake up as one year later. Ideally, where would your business be in one year from now?
Andrew Seguin: [00:51:20] One year from now, I want to be having multiple courses. I want to be having a team. I want to be making... my goal is to eventually in the next few years, I want to make a million dollars from this.
Um, so a year from now, I want to be making consistently, um, let's say like consistent $20,000 profit a month. At least. I want to be making, um, like have that whole team. I want an assistant. That would be fun. I want to, uh, have different courses, have my team and be really on track to have like the biggest fingerstyle thing on the internet. And I repeated a few things there, but that's what I'm going for.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:51:57] Well, I mean, you didn't hesitate at all. It sounds like I asked you when you're from now, you're like, okay. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But have you done the exercises to think about the steps to get you there?
Andrew Seguin: [00:52:07] Um, uh, yeah, I mean, I have, like, when I have my goals on my whiteboard here, I have like my yearly goal. And then I have like monthly goals and everything like that. And I think that think of the daily goals and everything. So I think of the steps like that. And sometimes it is, um, it is a lot to get there. Like if you want to make like a million dollars from an online course, that's going to be like, I thought of the number before, but I was like a thousand sales on a certain price or whatever.
And then you got like ad spend. So it's actually double that and then taxes, which is more so it's a lot that goes into it. And I think having daily goals, having things before bed, weekly goals, yearly goals is everything that helps.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:52:47] So you mentioned the team, I guess you don't have any team now when you said assistant, like that would be cool. Are you, are you, are you, are you actively looking for an assistant?
Andrew Seguin: [00:52:55] Um, not at the moment, but it's something in the future that I look for, because right now, when I say like, "Oh, message the team and me at [email protected]" or whatever. And then I'm the team. So people always messaged like my email for support. They're like, "Hey team." And I'm like, okay. They like the name.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:53:14] Even when I reached out to you about scheduling this right here, you're like, hold on, let me check my, with my assistant to see if I'm available. I knew you were joking, but I think that's part of the, the mindset thing is you're you, you know, want to come across as, this is a very legitimate, real thing and it's something that's can definitely help you learn how to play fingerstyle guitar.
Andrew Seguin: [00:53:31] Yeah, that's what I heard it too. Like if you, um, whenever you're talking to someone and they ask if you're available, if, um, it's like a business thing or something y'all you always got to say, "Let me talk to my assistant."
Jacques Hopkins: [00:53:43] So what, uh, what tools are you using? Are you, um, are you a ClickFunnels, ActiveCampaign guy?
Andrew Seguin: [00:53:48] I am a ClickFunnels, ActiveCampaign guy at the moment. And, um, I was listening to your other podcasts about, um, how you're switching to like LearnPress and BuddyBoss. And that sounds really cool. I'd love to have an app in the future. Um, but right now I'm on ClickFunnels and ActiveCampaign and yeah, that's what I'm using.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:54:08] Okay. What's your thoughts on ClickFunnels? Do you think you'll be on it for awhile?
Andrew Seguin: [00:54:11] Um, the thing with ClickFunnels is it's, um, it's the same thing, like you always say it has really good sales pages, but it doesn't have, you know, the best membership stuff. Like you said, the forget your password thing never works.
There's um, a lot of people sometimes have a hard time getting in and just there's some things I could really get better and it feels like they have, like, I think I got into ClickFunnels two years ago and there hasn't been anything that I've really seen, like consciously change about it. It looks the same, besides them changing their front page, like three times. That's about it.
And I think I'll definitely stay on there for my sales pages, so.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:54:44] What other tools do you use?
Andrew Seguin: [00:54:46] Um, I use that I use something called ManyChat cause I do some chat bot stuff too, to like close the people after they get the ebook. So I'm building a Facebook messenger list so I can eventually promote stuff on there when I release my music and stuff. So that's my goal.
I'm using that and um, Typeform too, because I switch and I do a survey thing on there sometimes. And that's what I can think of off the top of my head that I use,
Jacques Hopkins: [00:55:12] Deadline funnel?
Andrew Seguin: [00:55:13] Deadline funnel. Yes. I knew I was forgetting one and I was never using that until we met, so I'm using that now and that's, that's a very good.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:55:22] What about Bonjoro? Have you gotten on that yet?
Andrew Seguin: [00:55:24] I'm not gone on Bonjoro. I know. I've heard you talk about it a few times. It looks really cool. I know I've seen you do it on the live calls a few times.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:55:32] Yeah, it's good. And at the, at the spot that you're, you are where you're not getting a ton of new students, you're getting some, um, now would be a good time to start doing Bonjoro.
If you, I mean, it sounds like, like you, genuinely wants to help people learn guitar. Uh, fingerstyle guitar. Like you very much value your customers. And that's one way to, to show them that is by sending them a personal welcome video, um, when they sign up for your course and I use there's multiple ways to do it and I use Bonjoro for that.
Andrew Seguin: [00:56:00] Yeah, definitely. And like, you always say the customer experience isnumber one, with everything. A lot of people forget that. They make amazing sales pages. They make everything amazing. And then you log in and the course doesn't work or something. So I really think that that's important, the customer experience.
And I definitely try to make mine as, as good as possible. And that's why I've redone my course. That's why I like follow up with people and everything. So I think it's important for anyone. That's something to think about.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:56:29] So next, let me get, let me get your advice for a few different types of people. And let's start with, with, um, with younger people, right?
So a high school student looking to become an entrepreneur, like what are, what are the, what's the advice? What are the steps that you would recommend for, for a high school person?
Andrew Seguin: [00:56:46] There's so much that goes into, um, being, an entrepreneur that people don't think about. If you really want to be like um, successful at it.
If I'm talking to someone and you're 17, 18, high school, and you want to be an entrepreneur. That's awesome. We literally live in a time where there's, it's never been easier to be an entrepreneur. There's never been so much resources online to be an entrepreneur. It's the perfect time to be an entrepreneur, but also there's a million people who know about it and are trying to do it.
So you need to be, you know, higher than I one else who's trying to do it and get better than everyone else doing it. So you have to see what you want to do. You have to have your vision of what you want to do. It's what they say in the success books over and over. You need to be willing to work harder, make sacrifices.
You can't be playing Minecraft 12 hours a day. You need to now put that time into, you know, courses and stuff, and you need to focus on bigger picture and focus on really what you want. And also I'd say one thing too is, especially if you're younger, what you should be focusing on is building your mindset.
Like I'm still focusing on building my mindset. It's by watching podcasts. It's by watching videos, it's by joining Next Level Courses, being in an environment of successful people. And it's by reading, which is important. I think reading was one of the best things that I started doing. I started reading books and there's a lot that go into it.
But if you follow the right things, if you put in the work, if you get the environment, if you get everything, you're pretty much guaranteed to be successful.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:58:11] What are the, what are the top handful of books that you'd recommend aspiring entrepreneurs read?
Andrew Seguin: [00:58:16] Ooh. Okay. Well, I'm looking at my bookshelf. There's so much. Um, a couple of ones that stick out are... I love bio, biographies and autobiographies.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:58:24] Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Andrew Seguin: [00:58:25] I was looking at that one. Yeah, that's definitely one, I'd say. I'd recommend that. There was this one book I really liked called, um, I think it was, it was by Tony Robbins. It was one of the first ones I read it was called, like Shake something... I don't know. There's that. There's all the classic ones, you know, Think And Grow Rich. There's Profit First. That was good. And um, I say just reading biographies of good people is what's really going to help you. And, um, yeah.
Jacques Hopkins: [00:58:50] Okay. So going back to the advice, uh, more, more general, not age specific. Uh, advice for just aspiring course creators who, um, who have something they can share with the world they can teach. And, um, don't have a course yet. Like what advice would you, would you give them to find success with online courses?
Andrew Seguin: [00:59:08] So new people who are just, who are just getting into it, who just want to start an online course?
Jacques Hopkins: [00:59:11] Yeah. Um, yes.
Andrew Seguin: [00:59:13] The main thing I'd say is learn from people, see exactly what you need to do at first. So when I first started one of the reasons I wasn't successful is because I just went right at it. If you're getting into it, you should really consume yourself in the course community. You should be listening to podcasts about courses 24/7. You need to be obsessed with your course, because if you're not obsessed with your course, you're not obsessed with your customer, it's not, it's going to be really hard for you to be successful because you really need to be obsessed with it.
I'd say you want to focus on your mindset on looking at people who are doing courses and you want to focus on your product and making it as amazing as it can be. Not the sales pages, not everything, but your product, and then getting the testimonials, the reviews, and then putting that back on, because that's one of the main things. I remember you telling me that the one thing that pushes people over the edge for your course is all the testimonials on your sales pages. So it's a very important thing to do.
Jacques Hopkins: [01:00:10] No doubt, man. All right, Andrew. It's been a pleasure, man. Thanks. Thanks so much for joining me on the podcast. I know when I reached out to you about this, you were like, "Oh, this is one of my goals for 2021 was to come on the podcast." And I was like, man, knocking out the 2021 goals early.
So thanks for joining me here. Let me just, uh, just to wrap this up, let me just open the floor to you one last time, just share with, uh, any calls to action, like where people can connect with you, what your site is, and if there's anything else that you wanted to share with this audience.
Andrew Seguin: [01:00:35] First of all, thanks for having me on the podcast. It's been a blast. Yeah, it was one of my 2021 goals. And yeah, it was one thing that I wanted, like when I first joined Next Level Courses, I'm like, I really want to be on the podcast. I was one of the things that I thought of and I'm, you can find me at masterfingerstyleguitar.com or Andrew Seguin online.
And, um, one thing I'd say is, um, give a little shout out to, uh, Jacques is one of the reasons I'm, I'm getting a lot more successful is Next Level Courses. And I'd really recommend, like, like I said before, it's the environment, it's your environment, that's really gonna make you successful. And you have like the best environment in Next Level Courses, people are talking and I love the calls.
You can literally talk to Jacques, like we're talking right now. Imagine you being where I am. So. That's awesome. And yeah, the price is literally like nothing for what you get out of it. So that's why I'm saying I'm really happy to be on. Yeah. Thanks for having me.
Jacques Hopkins: [01:01:25] Cool, man. Thanks. Thanks for that shout out and congratulations on all your success. And obviously we'll, we'll continue to have our relationship and, and hopefully get you to that million dollar goal and all this impact and biggest fingerstyle guitar education empire ever. So we'll do that together and then hopefully we can continue to share that those results and success with the audience as well. So yeah, that's going to do it, man. Thanks so much. And, um...
Andrew Seguin: [01:01:48] Yeah, thanks.
Jacques Hopkins: [01:01:49] Yep. See you next time.
All right, Dr. K., welcome back. That was Mr. 18 year old Andrew, what did you think?
David Krohse: [01:01:58] All right. Well, after listening to this interview, I spent a lot of time debating what word described Andrew the best. So I kinda narrowed it down to bad-ass, rockstar, or stud muffin. In the end, I just couldn't choose just one. So Andrew, you know, in my book, you are a bad star stud muffin. I mean, you're just, just really inspiring and I'm really thrilled that we got this snapshot of where you are today, because I truly believe that you're going to do big things in your life.
And I think that down the road, I don't know if it's five, 10, 15 years, but, but we can look back on this and say, man, we caught him when he was, he was getting started and look at where he's at today.
Jacques Hopkins: [01:02:41] Yeah. And I didn't realize that his like entrepreneurial journey really started like 10 years old. Right. That's it's not like he just, all of a sudden pick things up and found success super quickly. Like I was telling him a lot of the things that he was doing from age 10 to 17 really led to, um, having success as an 18 year old. Man. What were you like at 18?
David Krohse: [01:03:03] I had the same... that was my question for you. Um, you know, yeah. I was going to ask, what were your high school jobs? What were you doing?
Jacques Hopkins: [01:03:11] First job I ever had was at this like shipping, um, shipping store. So people would come in to ship stuff via UPS or USPS. And so I would package up boxes. And, um, I got that job because I would sell a few things on eBay as like a 16 year old here and there didn't make very much money at all from that, but I would often go to the shipping store and then one day he was just like, hey, do you need a job by any chance?
Um, so that was 16 years old, but, but you know, at 18 I was very much... I've let things come to me. Right. I wasn't a go getter. I wasn't an action taker. Like, oh, the thing to do is go to college. Okay. I'm going to go do that. Oh, I'm good at math. Apparently I should be an engineer. I was just letting life happen to be at 18 years old. And that's not the path that Andrew's taken.
David Krohse: [01:03:54] Gotcha. Yeah. I would have guessed that you would have been like a nerd at Radio Shack or Circuit City, or maybe a Best Buy Geek Squad guy, but, uh, all right. So shipping. Um, well, I mean, in high school I was a lifeguard essentially and swim instructor, and I felt like that was kind of this high status job, but I will say both my brother and I were very entrepreneurial, but I mean, this is a long time ago.
So when I was 11 and my brother Josh was 13, we started a lawn mowing business. But our marketing was like making a flyer and putting it up door to door, putting the little flyer up at the grocery store with the little pull tabs at the bottom. And ah, I mean, we had a lot of fun with that, but it was interesting for me just to reflect, like if my brother and I were growing up today, would we have been entrepreneurs on the internet and I think we would have. My brother is pretty much like this computer genius. And so it was just kind of a fun thing to think. Yeah. What would we have been doing in this day, this day and age? So now I am curious, uh, this entrepreneurial spirit, you know, Andrew said that that, that was instilled in him at a very early age. You and your wife are both entrepreneurs and you certainly see the value of not having your entire success tied to a business. Will you take any action steps to. Kind of teach your daughters entrepreneurship?
Jacques Hopkins: [01:05:08] Oh, good question. Um, so my oldest is five. I have a five and three-year-old. I would love to absolutely. I mean, my wife hears me say all the time that like my, my girls don't need to go to college and she's like, "What?" I'm like, well, you know, they can, if they want to, but like, I'm certainly not going to force that upon them. And if they can start a business or go down a different path and, and who knows what, like college is going to look like in 13 years from now. But yeah, I certainly will.
Like, it's still, they're so young it's they, they don't even, they don't understand like what I do for work and they don't understand that most of the time people actually have to leave their house to go to a job and things like that. So they're still so young, but anything that I can do to instill some of that, I certainly certainly will try
David Krohse: [01:05:53] as
Jacques Hopkins: [01:05:53] they get older.
David Krohse: [01:05:54] Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. I was reflecting back so. There was a book series called The Great Brain. The Great Brain, The Great Brain Does It Again. And my brother and I just love those books and they are totally entrepreneur stories. There's this, this kid named Tom, he's in like Mormon Utah. And he was constantly coming up with ways to make money and just getting himself into pickles, but it just made starting a business looks so fun. So you could check out those. Um, other than that, I guess when the girls get to a certain age, you can play them Tai Lopez's video.
But no, I was thinking the other thing I want wanna, I want to see an article on, uh, on the internet someday that says "Online Course Marketing Guru Helps His Little Girl Scout Win The Cookie Competition."
And it goes on to share how you, you set your daughters up, uh, help them create like an entire... A webinar and Product Launch Formula funnel, um, on how to sell, on why people need to buy Girl Scout Cookies.
Jacques Hopkins: [01:06:52] Love it. Girl Scout Cookie funnel. Love it.
David Krohse: [01:06:55] Yeah. So time to start workshopping those internal, external and vehicle false beliefs for Girl Scout Cookies.
Jacques Hopkins: [01:07:01] Maybe I need to start reading them Expert Secrets at night, instead of a set of the normal stuff we do.
David Krohse: [01:07:06] That would be great. So I loved when he said he quoted and said that people will become the average of the people they're surrounded by. And I think we all know that. Yeah, but he basically said he doesn't have a bunch of entrepreneurs surrounding him in his real life, but he was able to create this brain trust between audio podcasts.
He was listening to videos and books where he was surrounded by Tai Lopez and Arnold Schwarzenegger. And so, I mean, obviously that is just a unique advantage that we have today is all these different ways to feel like we're surrounded by people that drive us to be better. And then the other thing he shared is just, we talked about how his main success has come through Facebook ads.
And on that note, I would, I would like to take just a minute and share my Facebook ads success story. It's more for my in-person business, but I feel like it could fill in some blanks between what he did. So the main thing, uh, a lot of this was inspired by your podcast, Jacques. And this is before we ever really talked.
But early in the podcast, you shared that you were going to go after search engine optimization. And you shared that you were going to spend 30, wasn't it like $3,200 a month?
Jacques Hopkins: [01:08:10] That's it. Yes.
David Krohse: [01:08:12] And so how many months did you actually spend that $3,200 a month?
Jacques Hopkins: [01:08:16] Six.
David Krohse: [01:08:17] Six months. So to me, I remember that. I was just like, oh my God, like, that's a huge, huge financial commitment, but you were willing to make that investment.
And so that kind of normalized that if you really believe that some kind of a marketing strategy makes sense, like, you know, throw money at it for a little while. And so then I created my online course about how chiropractors can have success with Lunch and Learns. And I started doing the sales calls that you recommend.
And so I start talking to chiropractors and one of my first questions was like, "Well, what are you doing right now for your marketing?" And quite a few of these doctors I was talking to were doing Facebook marketing. And I said, "Oh, how's that working for you?" And they said, "Well, so I'm spending $1,500 a month on the agency to run the ads. Then I'm spending $1,000 a month on the actual ad spend." And so I'm like, "Holy crap, these people are spending $2,500 a month." And they were like, they were like, "I'm getting some results, but I'm spending a lot of money on the actual, the whole process."
And so essentially just learning what I learned from your podcast. I was like, you know, I had done some little trial runs of Facebook ads, but I would spend like $200 for a couple of weeks. And I'd be like, man, that didn't really work. And so between you saying, if I'm going to try SEO, I'm going to spend $3,500, these other chiropractors saying I spent $2,500 a month on Facebook ads.
I was like, all right, I'm going to get Facebook ads to try. And so I had learned that retargeting was the most important thing. So I took a retargeting class by Diego DiBella in Udemy. So that was a $10 investment. I just figured I got to figure out retargeting for other people. I mean, Facebook has this blueprint. So if you want to learn Facebook ads and take an online course, you can always just do that.
Then this concept of funnel hacking, that was another lesson definitely learned from you and your podcast, Jacques, is just, you want to find other people that are having success and see what they're doing. So I'm in, I'm in Facebook groups with all these chiropractors and people at various time would be like, who's having success with Facebook ads?
If somebody says yes, I would like go to their Facebook ad page for their business. And I would scroll down to Page Transparency. You click into Page Transparency, you can see exactly what ads they're running. And so I was like, all right, I'm just going to copy their ads so to speak.
Another thing that a person can do, I learned about bigspy.com. And so it's just B-I-G-S-P-Y.com. And that's a page where you can spend $10 a month essentially, and you can search for search terms. So you could search piano course, and you would be able to see all the ads that show up for for piano courses, and then you can sort them by how much engagement there is below the ads.
On the other thing is just, I really started to look around the internet or around Facebook at what other ads are having success. So I've mentioned in the past, in the podcast the Show Her Off ads. Um, I wanted to ask you, have you seen, um, Brunson's watermelon ad?
Jacques Hopkins: [01:11:12] No, I don't think so.
David Krohse: [01:11:13] You haven't? Okay. So Russell Brunson, ClickFunnels. He has an ad now for Expert Secrets, and I'll have to share it below the, below the link for this podcast, but essentially it's this kind of crazy looking guy and he's putting rubber bands around both a watermelon and the copy of Expert Secrets and it says, "Which one is going to like, blow up first?" And then you get to see this watermelon explode.
And I'm telling you, if you see this ad, there is no way that you're going to scroll past it. I mean, like you're just going to stop and look at that ad. So it's this ad again, in terms of like, how do Facebook ads work? I would say, you know, you want to imagine, let's say that you were, I had never interacted with, with Russell Brunson or ClickFunnels.
That ad would get us to stop and look, we'd be like, what is this guy doing with this watermelon? Why is this watermelon exploding? And so we'd learn a little bit there. Then we'd start to see the ads over the next two weeks for other things, Expert Secrets, maybe the One Funnel Away Challenge. And again, it's like all those other ads have all this engagement below that's what's ultimately going to push us to actually sign up for one of his products because we just keep seeing it. Um...
Jacques Hopkins: [01:12:29] So can we, can we expect a, um, Facebook ads course from you in the future?
David Krohse: [01:12:33] No, not at all, but, uh, yeah, I mean, ultimately what I did, I committed to spending $1,000 per month for three months as a test. And by the end of that, I had definitely made money. I had multiple patients coming in and they were saying exactly what you'd want them to say.
They were like, "I just kept seeing your ads. And I could tell that you cared about people. That you were trying to share value. And so I decided that I wanted to come and see you". Um, I did ask Andrew Seguin, I asked for his specific budget advice because in the main interview with Andrew, he shared a little bit about his, his strategy of doing more testing.
But I asked Andrew on Facebook. I said, "How much would you tell a starting course creator to actually commit to seeing if Facebook ads work?" And I just wanted to take a second read his answer.
He said, "I'd say commit to one to two months to test. And be willing to spend at least a few thousand dollars. Although the more you spend the quicker your testing can be done, I'd say be willing to spend and potentially lose $2,000 to test over the course of one to two months. People definitely don't go in with the right mindset." He just says, "Yeah. Expect to spend one to two months of testing and potentially lose a couple of thousand dollars."
So a couple last points, it's just, you can't do Facebook ads unless your course, your course costs over a certain amount. So again, Andrew's course is up around $300. Neither you or Andrew really would have had success with your marketing efforts if your courses had been at $99. So you got to get up to that value that you can actually justify the ad spend.
Jacques Hopkins: [01:14:03] Yeah, completely agree. Now, one thing that I wish he would do more of is the organic traffic, because while he has found success with Facebook ads and, and thanks for all that value you just shared about Facebook ads. It's, it's hard to sustain that and when 100% of your traffic and 100% of your sales comes from just paid traffic. Then, uh, it really eats into your margins as well.
I've said it many times. You just don't want to have all your eggs in one basket, as far as traffic goes, especially if that traffic is paid, the more diversity, the better, um, you don't want to, you don't want to try to have all the traffic sources all at the beginning either, but let's slowly add one more, one more, one more, uh, traffic source. And I'm sure, you know, in six months down the road, Andrew will have, um, more traffic sources. I know he's really working hard on his YouTube channel, so.
Uh, that's um, that's going to do it for this episode. David, thanks so much for joining me for another one here and coming with, um, with all the great insights and everything as usual. Thanks to everyone out there for listening and thanks to Andrew for joining me in the, uh, in the full conversation there in the middle of the episode.
The show notes for today are going to be at oc.show/166. So, kind of a summary of what we talked about here today with timestamps and any links that we've mentioned will be there at oc.show/166. And until next time, get out there and make some Next Level Courses that provide transformation to your students and not just information.
Take care, everyone.
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